Empathy, Value, and Data Storytelling: A Conversation with Obinna Iwuji

In this episode of 'The Student Guide,' we delve into the importance of being true to oneself and understanding the values you bring, as intertwined with Obinna's personal journey of being bullied and isolated. Obinna shares insights into his diverse career ranging from operations management at Amazon to education policy at the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis, and eventually his leap into digital marketing and advertising. He details his significant work in cultural diversity and his venture into data visualisation, emphasizing its role in storytelling and its potential social impact. Obinna discusses empathy as a missing element in the world and its importance in both personal and professional life. Additionally, his community work, including his involvement with the BYP Network and supporting girls in low-income countries, is highlighted. He gives practical advice for creators on leveraging platforms like TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube, and shares how he balances revenue and impact in his business. Don't miss the new '44 questions' segment with thought-provoking questions that uncover deeper insights!

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Chapters

• 0:00 The Importance of Self-Reflection and Values
• 0:47 Introduction to The Student Guide
• 1:29 Meet Our Guest: Obina's Journey
• 4:54 Empathy: The Missing Element in the World
• 12:21 The Power of Data Storytelling
• 24:01 Challenges and Staying True to Your Vision
• 33:48 Community Involvement and Personal Growth
• 48:23 Unexpected Job Offer
• 49:24 Hiring Insights from a Manager
• 49:59 The Importance of Energy and Compatibility
• 50:40 Navigating Career Growth
• 51:39 Focus and Strategy in a Busy Life
• 52:33 BetterHelp Sponsorship
• 54:07 Content Creation Tips
• 56:21 Delegation and Teamwork
• 58:48 Podcasting and Video Content
• 1:01:30 Leveraging Social Media Platforms
• 1:14:52 Networking and Professional Growth
• 1:18:25 Final Thoughts and Takeaway

Transcript

 You being you is more important  than what you can necessarily do because the things you do are a result of who you are and the processes and habits you are as a person. So I wasn't necessarily the cool kid  and  I wasn't necessarily part of a lot of things but. Because of that, I spent a lot of time in reflection and because of that I was very focused on who I was and what values I could bring and how I could help.

Because I've been bullied, I've been through something and because I know what it's like to be isolated, I know what it's like to be bullied, I know what it's like to be put down, I know what it's like to not believe in your own value. My job in life is to make sure that people around me understand their values. 

Hope you're doing well, hope you're looking after yourselves. Welcome to another episode of The Student Guide. We know it's been a bit of a minute since we've, uh, released an episode. That's because we've been cooking up some cool stuff for you to find out in the next couple of weeks. So you'll have a nice Christmas surprise, uh, coming your way.

But yes, as you know, The Student Guide, we bring amazing guest speakers, amazing people doing amazing work. And, uh, I've got an amazing guest today. He's doing incredible work. And, uh, I've been lucky enough to be one of his guests on this podcast. An amazing guest.  Thank you very much. Um, but yes, enough about me.

Enough about pick up the mic. Enough about Streamguide. Um, Can we please learn about you and what you do? Amazing to speak for them. 

Sure thing. Hi everyone. My name is Obina.  Obina. You're breaking up.  Um, but yeah, no, um, hi, so I, I've had a pretty varied career. I started out in operations management, uh, work for Amazon, then went to work in education policy at the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis in America.

Um, after COVID and all of that, they sent me back home to where I came from. So I came back to the UK. Um, and thereafter, I worked in digital marketing for a couple of startups, after which I got into working in advertising. First as a data analyst, then as a content partnerships person.  Um, won some, I guess, industry awards for my work in diversity, equity, inclusion.

I ran an employee resource group called Wave Maker Roots, which was focused on cultural diversity in advertising, and ran it from one person to 80 people fold. Uh, we made a number of campaigns, workshops, events, all of that throughout the advertising industry, introducing it to  diverse, uh, minorities and created a bunch of award winning work.

Um, and I also ran public speaking workshops for my company as well. Whilst doing all of this, I also had a freelance career. My first business actually was in America where I did Facebook ads for real estate agents, um, which was nice. It got, I was, I was getting paid at the time. I was like, I,  but I realized quick, pretty quickly that I was long and I didn't really like it.

Um, and so when Covid hit, I was just like, I'm not doing that again. That was nice for a time, but that's it. And so since then, I first started making like small websites for people and then I got into this thing called data visualization, which is about how do we get information and complexity and make it easier for people to understand.

So there are a lot of companies with just huge data sets that they've been hosting for years, and either they don't know how to hold it internally. And, you know, it's just an Excel sheet after Excel sheet and they don't know how to consolidate it together. So we build a data infrastructure for them. But the other side is they struggle with communicating it to their stakeholders.

How do you take data and make it emotional? How do you tell a story? How do you make some people care about the facts behind your business? And so I got into data visualizations first working with non profits. Then selling as a product within my own company within, sorry, the company I worked for wave maker and WPP.

And then after I realized how much money could be made with it, I was like, you know what I want to do for myself as well, which is where I am today, where I run the data design studio. Um, whilst also doing a masters, um, but yeah, sorry, I chatted a lot, but  that's a summary. Got other stuff too, but hopefully that gives you guys an idea of where I am.

Perfect. And, uh, you're doing a lot.  I don't know if people can tell. You're doing a lot. You're a busy man. We're trying, we're trying, we're trying. But yeah, we're going to start off, uh, with our new segment, uh, 44 questions, brought to you by, uh, the amazing Amanda from 44 words. Hi 

Amanda. Hi Amanda.  

So, yes, as you may know, Amanda, uh, reads through our guest bios and, uh, suggests questions for you to find out a bit more about our guest speakers through the idea of creativity, some deep questions, and, uh, Obinna, it's, uh, it's a tough one.

Alright, let's go. I'm ready. I'm ready. Yeah, let's go. The question for you is, what  What is currently missing in the world? And you can take that however you want to. 

Empathy. Um,  I think as soon as you, yeah, empathy. Um,  A lot of us see ourselves as the main character of our own story, which is the case in a lot of ways.

But when that happens, you  stop understanding, or taking the time to understand that other people have the ways of living and ways of working that you are not necessarily a part of. And so when things happen to you, rather than you taking a step back and understanding where it could come from, you're like, I've been attacked.

Um, and so there's a lack of empathy, I would say. And it's this lack of empathy that causes a lot of, in my view, the equitable inequalities that exist both in the corporate world and generally in society because we're so focused on how things are damaging us. We're not taking the time to understand how we're damaging others around us,  which, which leads to  not the best decisions being made in life.

Um, and you can take that in so many different spheres, but without a doubt, empathy is a thing that I think is missing from the world. 

Could've wrapped 

up the podcast here, but such. Thank you everyone. Hey, thanks for being here. No, 

no, thank you so much. I mean, I definitely agree. I think 

like you said, like, that's one of the things that, uh, especially the, the main character, like when he sees himself as the main character, um, there was this video of, uh, I saw it on Instagram, but this guy was doing a street interview, and someone like walked in front of the camera.

Uh, it was in the States, and the person who was by the interviewer said to the interviewee like, Oh my days, like, that's so rude, like, I can't believe this person just did that. And then the interviewee was just like, no, like, you don't know what that person's going through, you don't know what's going on in their mind, you don't know what they're thinking about.

And he said, he said this like, uh, like saying like, don't equate, things like, don't equate like rudeness to something that could be ignorance. He was saying that like, They might just be in their own world, thinking about their own thing, and generally didn't see the interview going on. So they're just like, oh, like, and if they knew, they probably would have just like walked around.

Walked around, yeah. Um, and it's the same thing like when, like, we, like, pick up a mic, do like free interviews, or like do stuff at events. Like sometimes, yes, people walk in front of the camera, but I'm just like, it's not in the world, man. Like, it's not, it's not that deep. And it's like we said, like, being empathetic, cause you, cause Like, I don't know what that person, if someone walks in front of a camera, you know, if I'm just like, hey, excuse me, like, what are you doing, it's so rude,  and just like, kick off, I don't know what that person's going through.

Like, that person may have just been laid off from their job, they may have just like, they may have just been engaged to, like, whatever, like, they might be in their own world, and it's just about, like you said, like, being a bit empathetic in the way that we act and what we do. And it doesn't have to be like, massive stuff, like, it could just be, you know, it could be anything.

I don't know, like holding a door for someone, if, you know, if they're behind you, someone, like, does something for you, saying thank you. Um, you don't have to be, some people, like, especially when it comes to empathy, it has to be, like, big acts, because that's the only stuff that's, you know, like, truly, like, truly shows you're an empathetic person.

But it's actually those, like, small little stuff. Um, especially ones where, like, you don't, you know, Uh, like on his podcast, this is a plug to, to, to listen to that episode. It's coming out a, it is coming out keeping out  . But even as we mentioned on the like podcast, um, like with both Christians and like, there's a bible verse that even talks about like,  don't, you don't, like, you don't do things.

It is not, it sort talks about like doing things. I'm not necessarily doing it for like public praise or whatever. Yeah. So even if, I don't know, like.  Even if, like, you do something, you don't then have to be like, Oh, you know, I'm, I'm the most unprotected person in the world because I've been using this. Or like, I know some people, like, we could even do a whole conversation, an episode about it.

But, 

let's, we're 

here, we're here for you today. But, you know, when people do the whole, uh, you know, recording themselves, like, doing, like, kind acts and stuff like that. And, like, that, that bible verse always sticks to me because I'm just like, that's, that's more important. Like, to me Even arguably like, you, even like when we discussed it, like during events, or like, you have a conversation with someone and they turn around and they're just like, Hey, I just want you to know like, you really impacted me today.

And sometimes, I'll just say, I'll just say that's it. Some of the, the conversations that I have, whether it's even on camera or off camera, they're like, I don't necessarily like, tell everyone, I'm just like, Wow man, that's really like cool. To me I'm just like, this is a normal tree state for me. For that man it's like, no.

Like what you did, what you said, like really helped. I'm just like, wow. That's all it takes. That's all. I know we have other questions to get to. But 

like, I think that's a key point. Because it goes back to the character thing. You're the main character of your story. They're the main character of their story.

You were, um, a side character who, who perhaps they were on a crossroads and your, your actions help them make a different thing on their story. So you impacted their story. And the thing is, you won't even know because you're just living your life, but that's what impact is about. And I don't know what's happened in this world as a lot more performative  about empathy.

We're very good at looking empathetic rather than being empathetic.  Um, we're very good at looking genuine without being genuine, very performative. And it's, it's because of that, when you come across a genuinely empathetic and nice person, it's like,  well, you're trying to shake me up.  What's going on? Why are you smiling like that?

I don't like, you know, it's a, it's a common thing because you're so used to the performative  nature of, of what. It is today and that's why it's important to be like that. And that's why, you know, you go to that Bible verse, but even in general, in the Bible in general, um, it's not about what people see you do.

It's about what you're doing and what's loving.  And I, I've been on a panel recently about, you know, mentorship and how do you get like sponsors so that, you know, when you're in a, when, whether you're in the room or not, somebody's talking about you. The best way to do it is to do things of value and of impact.

And the thing is when you're doing something of value and impact. You're doing work when nobody's looking because you have this whole full time job that you need to do and then you need to do your other thing as well. And not everyone's going to see it, which means sometimes you ain't going to look sexy. 

You're going to look raggedy. You're going to look inefficient, but because of that vision of what you're trying to do and you know the impact because you understand the people you're trying to touch because of your empathetic nature. Um, your long run, you're going to do something of value. And people won't even tell you that your sponsor, they will just be sponsoring, you won't even know.

And then all of a sudden opportunity comes, you're like, where did that come from? These aren't things that you can orchestrate. These things come from your natural ability to be valuable and help, um, again, a whole other thing, but empathy without a doubt, especially as business people, because at the end of the day,  Businesses come from solving a problem.

You understand the problem and you try to solve it. Data is not the sexiest job in the world. A lot of companies need help and support, which is why they're willing to pay more money for when you're able to solve their problem. And that's because I understood the place and was able to act in it because I empathize with that way of thinking.

Um, Cut.  Hi,  . I love it, man. I love it. 

Um, but yeah, let's, let's get to learn a bit more about you. So, you know,  you, you mentioned that you've got a journey with content, creating data, storytelling. Um, what, this is like a two parter. I will say for a lot of our questions, they tend to be two parters. That's okay.

If you need anything repeated, just let me know, surely. Um, but what inspired you to get into this journey of content marketing, data storytelling. And the second part is. How do you merge creativity with analytics to craft meaningful narratives? Because as you mentioned, yeah, data can sometimes seem as like this very like, you're looking at spreadsheets,  you're dealing with like, you're, you're coming up with pie charts and pivot tables and all of this stuff.

CRM. Um, so how can you, how do you merge the two? So that creativity aspects with analytics, but not even just like merging it to like make a nice like, fancy looking report, but like it's.  You're crafting these impactful, meaningful narratives through the work that you're doing. 

Okay. Woo. I love this question.

Um, so  the reason I started this actually goes back to Um, I think it was when I was doing, I did the IB. So for my sixth form, you know, you do A levels. Um, I did the IB, it's called the International Baccalaureate. And one of the courses that I did there was in Geography. I love Geography because I love learning about the world.

Like, I call myself a nerd. I'm a charismatic nerd.  I love learning. I love the, I love the stuff. And my goal in life is to make a career out of my nerdiness. Um, but there was a specific class in geography where they were talking about inequality in the world and using things like the human development index and using that to chart the world and see what perspective that gives to us in terms of how.

Global operations work. And there was this gentleman that did this presentation. He's also done a TED talk. His name was Hans Rosling. Um, he's a statistician, Swedish guy. He's dead, but he was a cool guy. I have his book. Um, and he. Uh, did this amazing presentation using data viz. So he had this charts at the back of him and he was talking about, um, but  he was talking about, he was charting death rates or birth rates against GDP and it was making an illustrative GDP is gross domestic product.

Um, it's one of the ways that we measure an economy's economic ability to create money essentially. So GDP gross domestic product.  You guys probably knew that, but I'm saying it anyway,  but he was charting them against each other. And, um, if you went back as far as 1985, most of the world was actually at the bottom corner of this chart, right?

Um, or UK, Nigeria, all of, we're all poor, we're all hungry and all of that stuff.  And then you let the timeline run and as you go through the years you see there starts to be a separation. Western Europe starts to rise because of stuff like the industrial revolution and all of that. Um, things get to increase, increase, increase wealth.

You start seeing a wealth disparity in the world and then you have this major drop. Around 1917 ish,  1945. Why? Because there was a world war. World war one, world war two. Everyone dies.  Birth rates start to get up again as we recover and the world stretches.  As the world stretches you start to understand something. 

These countries that were once here are now at the pinnacle where they have a high wealth and a high standard of living.  But then if you break them up all of a sudden, if you break up China, the northern part of China is living like, um,  Like, I don't know,  Luxembourg, but then the southern part of China is living like Ghana.

If you break up parts of Ghana, part of Ghana is living like Sweden, but other parts are still like Zimbabwe. Disparity isn't what we think it is, the world isn't what we think it is, and the data shows over time, generally speaking, all across the world, life is improving.  We're living longer with dying less where wealth is more present.

Yes, there's disparity, but we're a lot better today than we were 20 years ago. He was one of the first Eurocentric thinkers. That made, that actually made the case that Africa isn't just poverty and flies. I'm not sure if when you grew up, every single ad out there was like, say you're a child in Africa.

And then there's always this one fly that just lands on their eye, on their nose. It's just there.  And then I did second year school in Nigeria. And guess what? Yes, there were flies, but they weren't as prominent as it was meant for me to believe. In fact, there's actually a lot more to the story of development than what it was.

And so he was the first Eurocentric person that made that argument and he was taken seriously. Why?  Data.  And that made me think, okay, Rah,  I want to learn this thing because it can change perspective.  And it's not just me telling you emotionally and saying, you know, I promise you there are rich people that is me giving you numbers and facts and telling you, listen, the narrative is better than it looks. 

That alone is an example of how data can be used to tell a story, but that was why I got interested in it. Um, I worked in content and partnerships, which isn't exactly content creation. It means that I align brands with publications. So, um, you know, I can align stuff like GE Healthcare with CNN or Bloomberg and all of that with Crater.

Bespoke content, uh, package where we can create a documentary series or like, um, you know, a motion graphic series or a web experience or a live experience or whatever. It's all about how do you create a content package to send  a message at scale. Um, that's what content partnerships is all about. And within that, I was working with a specific client.

I'm not going to name them here, um, but they had, uh, 2. 2 million and they were trying to use media in order to share a message about their new innovation in that they were doing and they wanted to be seen as thought leaders in the space and wanted to be known as people who make impact and all of that.

They had a lot of information about it, but they were like people get bored of data. You don't want to do it. And we said, okay, so let's come up with an idea. And one of the ideas that we had was, um, they were actually very innovative in thinking of technology and how it can be used in life. So they did this project, for example, having a mobile network running up in space.

They worked with NASA to do that. Um, they did a lot of really cool technology stuff. And so we created a bespoke series using their data to create innovation within different communities. Um, and so we did like this huge series with a large publication to do this, boom, a campaign went out. Did it, did it, did it.

They spent around quarter of a million just on data viz  and then the rest went into media. And so that one told me money way and then two data can be used to tell a story.  It just depends on how you think about it. So one of your questions was, so how does, I think I've given some examples of how data can be used, but the main point here is data is not just about facts.

Data is about a reflection of how the world and society is working. It's now my job as a storyteller, as a creator to then tell that story in a way that lands and hits with my audience. And there are so many examples of that. Um, there's a story called, um, Hello Ella, which is talking about, um, Uh, um, air pollution in England and how the rates of pollution is so high that this young girl called Ella died before she was 10 years old because she had an asthma attack due to the fact that where she lived and was born in South was just full of pollution that her lungs weren't able to be, uh, created in a way that allowed her to breathe and all of that.

And it was a pure data backstory, but we made it personal through this Ella experience and the stuff like that, that actually, sorry, let's stop like you let's write, because now we understand we need to make, um, the London environment a more breathable space because our kids.  Simple as that. If you don't have access to healthcare and you don't have access to private healthcare, because sometimes the NHS waiting lines are like three years long, right?

What do you do? And so that was a great data story that was done by Beyond Web Studio. Um, so stuff like that. You can make a lot of really evocative story at iData, having data be the hero. I chat a lot. I think I've answered both of your questions now. Okay!  

No, I definitely agree because I think as, uh, like when I was doing my undergrad like that was the one thing that  we said as a class is that  you can talk about climate change till like the cows come home, you can say like climate change is impacting people, it's gonna change the planet, it's gonna do this but  people sometimes are just like why should I care? 

And it's just like, oh, you're showing me like a graph that shows that like the temperature has increased and why you like it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so like you said, it's always about that story that you're telling. And even after we, like, our lecturers did a really good, like, point with us, he was just like, Oh, like, I'm not even going to say now I know what the global temperature is of the world.

He was just like, he asked everyone, like, what do you think, like, you're being told, like, Oh, the global temperature can't increase by like, 1. 5. If it increases by 1. 5, yes, we can still like change things, but it's just like two degrees was really bad. He was like, do you know what the current global temperature is?

And everyone was just like, I don't know. Like for me, I was even just like, I know room temperature, like  I'm way just somewhere around that. And he was like, no, actually like global temperature is around like, 14 degrees. I don't know if that's the case now, but he was like, So even like you said with the data,  people are telling you that like, oh, a temperature increase is like, pretty bad, um,  and then what's going on at that point.

So yeah, I definitely think that that's like a key narrative to like, So I think it's really key, as you mentioned there, that like the narrative that data can tell, and allowing yourself to not think, like you said, like data, Um,  isn't needed, especially I think Megan mentioned from like a business aspect that like data isn't needed to justify, oh you've identified a problem, great.

What are the stats? Because you might be like, well heck, like we'll talk about, we have a mic check, which you guys know is like a fact figure relates to the conversation we're talking about. Um, and we have one that I'll mention uh, like later on because it links into one of the questions, but arguably it's like, if I say, oh.

Students have a hard time at university. If I'm then going to like an organisation to say I need like funding or sponsorship or whatever from you to support that, they'll be like, okay cool, but like, where are you getting this information from? Yeah, where are your sources? Where are your sources? Um, arguably it's the same with like if you're when you're doing like uni projects, like You're, you have to cite where you get this information from, you can't just turn around and be like, Hey, you know,  like, the sky's blue, like, you know, you've got to find what tells me 5%. 

So I definitely agree that that is like, like you said, that highlights the importance of connecting those two things. Um, but yeah, we're going to the next question, which is can you share a project or story, I mean, you kind of have, so if you want to go on to the next question you can, but this question was originally going to be can you share a project or story where data visualisation helps uncover a compelling story or create an impact.

I feel like, this is Ella. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll jump ahead to the next question, which is what challenges, so this is specifically about your data design studio.  So what have been the challenge, what challenges have you faced while building the studio  and how do you stay authentic to your vision?  

Uh, challenges is when you mention the word data, people get scared. 

Um, people get scared and it's, it's, it's a mix of stuff. I don't understand it.  It sounds like a lot bro. It's kind of controversial. I don't know about data.  All of that sort of stuff. So some of the challenges I face is just purely education. Purely like demystifying it for people, which is part of my job. 

So that's a common challenge that I faced and the solution to that challenge is creating as much value up front for people to show my ability to make things easy for them because data is just a term. Data is marketing the same way. It's my people find my content is controversial. AI in my view is just a marketing stuff because it all comes from machine learning. 

There's no such thing as.  She's a pure mind that computers have. They all work on past data, past information, and using models they then make an educated guess about the future. But none of it is turning something from nothing to something, which is purely human actually. So all this AI stuff, to an extent, is pure marketing.

The term data, the way it's used, In my view, we're, we're, we're falling under the, the, the negative path of marketing where people are now thinking, Oh my gosh, data is this big, big, big thing, really? It's just information. You fill out a form. It has your name, your last name. That's data. You have a birth certificate.

That's data. We're chatting right now. It's recording. It's data. It's just, it's just information. And it's a matter of how I go about communicating. How do I go about understanding, how do I use this information to make my processes better? Um, and so we organize like data literacy workshops and stuff like that to help companies feel better about data, feel more like they can touch it and it's more tangible to them and then from there we can upsell to say, hey, we can do something too for you.

But data literacy teaching is like a huge way of solving the problem. A lot of people are willing to be to learn.  People love learning. That's why I enjoy being in that because I love learning too. And if I can facilitate you learning and I can learn with you and then I learned about your industry and then I can learn how data applies in your industry, then I get a lot out of it as a practitioner.

And you can use it for your advantage. So it's a win win situation. How do I stay true to myself?  How do I stay true to the vision? That's been an interesting one because, you know, there is what makes you money and then what fulfills you. You're lucky if those things align or sometimes they don't.  Um, and as a startup, I would say we've been running for the past year and a half.

Um, I still say we're startup. Um, yeah, no, I think  if we went for three years and we're having a, that high level of profitability, then I would call myself like a running business. But until then, I would call myself a startup. Um, staying true to oneself is like,  So, for example, building data  infrastructures pays a lot of money. 

A lot of companies are willing to, especially if I can automate it and then do reports to them, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. Um, to some extent that is really, that is the crux of my business, but what I want to do is create learning opportunities, right? How do we use that data to educate people about STEM, to educate people about the environment, to educate people about the reality that Africa isn't as bad as people think.

That doesn't mean it's completely fine, but like everywhere else it has problems and data can reveal that. And so what I've kind of done right now is I'm adopting a model. It's literally trying this since last month of saying, okay, this is our revenue driving projects. And these are our impact driving projects.

And we make sure that our revenue driving projects take up like 60 to 70 percent of the time. And 30 to 40 is going on driving impact. That way I can work with non profits who have a lot of data but can't afford me. I can say, okay, fine, let's figure out how we can drive impact with you. And so we'll turn that into a content campaign.

We'll turn that into something that gives me value because content and I get well known. And it gives them value because we're creating something for them. for them. And that's how I've kind of figured out how to be true to myself to understand rent needs to be paid. I need to be paid, but also I want to make impact.

And so that's how I've gone about doing it. And I find it funny because as when leading the employee resource group at wave maker, that's literally the model that we tried without even thinking, yes, we have clients who are willing to pay me millions of media. Yeah. How can we then use that to empower the community that we're trying to get them to consume our products through public speaking workshops, through media training, through giving them access to events like can and all of that.

How do we, you get me? So we're kind of using that model and then putting it into the business. That's 

incredible man, um,  Yeah, no, honestly it's really good because I know my mum does, um, so my mum runs a business called, uh, James Raphael Consultancy, so it's like data protection. Literally, like, I know  exactly what you mean, because she's just like,  the people that get, like, why data protection is important, get why data protection is important.

Yeah, um, but then when you're just like, oh, like, so and so is just like, oh, I'm actually, like, Want to expand my like, like I said, whether it's to learn whether it's because you know  They've had a bit of a few concerns from their own data stuff. Maybe the um  I don't know what they're called. ICO. Do that is? 

No.  This is our Information Commissioner's Office. So in the UK, they do all the data protection stuff. So if you have to register for like, as a data controller, data processor, all that stuff, sometimes people might get like,  Contacted about that. Yeah. Um, they might not, or like maybe someone like is just like, Oh yeah, you know, I've seen that you haven't registered or I can be your data processor.

So they might be like, Oh, well,  should I go with this company? Cause I'm not sure about the services or whatever. So she, I know, like she says, it's just like, how do you, like, It's that I'm getting people to understand,  like, it's really going to help you to, like, develop and grow. And, like, emphasizing the point that, like, there's nothing wrong with, like, not knowing everything about data.

That's perfectly fine. That's magical. Yeah. Yeah, that's why you hired me. It's just about, like, being open to, like, understanding that, like, okay, cool, I might not know it, but I'm going to hire you to do it. And you're not giving me advice, like, you're not going to, like, push me around or, like, you know, better understand.

Mm hmm. Let me not cast any specific careers so people don't come for me. But like, you know, some people say like, I'm getting charged more for like, suggestions. Or like, sometimes it can feel like, I might as well have just asked ChatGBT this. Because the answer I'm getting is not to the level of my standard.

Like, obviously that's not the case with you. What you're doing, it's like, nah, like, we're going on a journey. We're going to tell a narrative. And one final thing, we're going to the final question.  Is I really like how you emphasize the like revenue and impact because I think  sometimes when like people have businesses, they're like,  it's one or the other.

So I'm either like working on the revenue side and I'm just selling stuff and that's going to be like my business. And then eventually, like once we've got loads of money, we can decide what we spend it on. We can then like focus on our impact. Or people feel like it's the opposite, so it's like, okay, now I can only focus on the impact that I do, and you know, I can't necessarily focus on my services being like, broader and all this stuff, but it's actually possible to have both, and having both, and like you said, like, adjusting the priority of, if you think that like, I also depend on the size of your team and stuff like all that.

But like, if you feel like you can do, like you said, like 60 to 70, it's like focusing on like the revenue generating side of your business, and 30 to 40 is the, um, impact side, then that allows you to just be like, okay, cool, so, like you said, this organization has been getting in touch with me to work with them, I'm not going to charge them my normal rate, or like, I might not charge them at all, because I know like, They don't have a budget for that, but I know that there's a clear impact that this is going to have.

So let's work together and see on the impact that it's going to business. Um, this other company will make it in touch and you'll be like, actually, I know you can afford to pay me. I'm not going to let you push me over. Like, you're still, that's not to say that you can't have an impact, but that's to say, I know that this can like, help you grow.

So yeah, I definitely agree. Um, yeah, yeah. It's an important thing to, to think about when it comes to businesses, those two things kind of. 

Absolutely. Because like, when it comes to business, you're  As an owner, your main job is sales.  Sales.  What can help you make a good sale? Right? So word of mouth is strong.

If I show that I'm able to make a massive impact with this non profit and get so well known, that is a lead magnet for me to get my next client for me to say, Hey, look, I did this stuff.  It made a huge impact. These are the numbers. These are the stats.  Wouldn't you like some of that? Yeah,  you don't need to know they didn't pay me.

You don't need to know that. You just need to know that I worked with them. You don't need to know that they didn't pay me. All you need to know is that's what the results are possible. And if you want some,  you get me.  

I definitely agree. Um, we've come to the last question, if anyone wants to pass him the mic, where you will get to ask him some questions.

Um, I think it's an important one. Links to our mic check. Uh, so our mic check for today's episode comes from the British. Computer Society. Mm-hmm . So it says that only 4% of data professionals in the UK are black. Mm. Highlighting that there is a need for representation and diversity within analytics, and particularly when it comes to linking analytics and storytelling together.

Mm-hmm. So based on your involvement with community, uh, initiatives, uh, such as, uh, you know, BYP, uh, support, anyone doesn't know, that's the Black Young Professionals Network. Yeah. Um. How has your involvement in the community initiatives shaped your approach to well being and embracing authenticity in your personal and  professional life? 

Hmm.  Tell you what, let me get deep on this podcast.  

Okay, say that last bit. Say that last bit. How does it work? 

How has it shaped your approach to well being and embracing authenticity in your personal and professional life? 

So, okay, I'm going to talk a bit about how I got in and then I'm going to talk about the answer and hopefully something of value will come to you. 

Um, so I studied economics and statistics in uni. Um, I studied economics because my mom told me you're going to study economics. Therefore I did. Um, I studied statistics because I was interested in data. I wanted to learn how to use it. Um, within all of this, I realized learning how to code was very important.

And so I taught myself how to code, uh, through watching tutorials and to just Practicing, practicing, practicing. Somehow, by God's amazing grace, I got a software company role while I was working as a software developer for this organization called Software for Good. To me, that was the benchmark of the type of company I want to make.

Um, And it was funny because they were like, Hey, coding experience. And then I went up there, I rocked up to that interview. I was like, yo, you know what? I don't actually know how to code. I learned some stuff online, but you know what I mean? We go by faith  and the guy hired me. I was like, well, okay. And then after I got hired, I was like, bro, why did you hire me?

And he was just like, listen, you were just very enthusiastic  to give you a try. Why not?  That company told me a lot about my coding basis, but more than that, it showed me that you being you is more important than what you can necessarily do, because the things you do are results of who you are and the processes and habits you are as a person.

And they were willing to invest in who I was, and I was able to produce something for them. And since then we've had a great relationship.  Um, and who am I as a person? I'm a community driven person. Everywhere I've been, I've always been part of a community. Um, and the thing is, I'm quite, like I said, I'm a nerdy person, right?

That also means I wasn't necessarily a cool kid, right? I was a little choppy guy who, I was twerking by walking. My cheeks were like, just like that. I was jiggling all over the place. No one could stop me,  . And I was a black boy as well. I liked theater. I was loud,  you know what I mean? But, and I wasn't the most well off.

I, my swag was PLI Souls. Nike what? Plin  Souls. That's me. Yeah. So I wasn't necessarily the cool kid  . I, I, and I wasn't necessarily part of, of a lot of things. But because of that, I spent a lot of time in reflection. And because of that, I was very focused on. Who I was and what values I could bring and how I could help because I've been bullied.

I've been through something and because I knew what it's like to be isolated. I know what it's like to be bullied. I know what it's like to be put down. I know what it's like to not believe in your own value. My job in life is to make sure that people around me understand their value.  Hence why I be part of communities, hence BYP and all of that.

And especially in the analytics world where it's a bunch of people who are taught, you know, put your head down and don't do anything and just focus on the work. We need to learn that. We don't just bring, um, operations to work. We bring personality and we bring self. You need to raise your head and speak and learn, learn your voice because some people don't actually know their own voice, which is what a lot of our workshops are about, teaching you how to take ownership and learn a bit more about what you can say.

You don't need to be the loud, charismatic person, you know what I mean? Everyone has their own speaker profile. You could be the quiet person who, the one time you speak, makes a difference. You could be the chatty person who, not necessarily saying the biggest and maddest things, but people love having you around because you are, you're a hug around the heart. 

And then you have the people who are the shouters and charismatic and they do their thing too.  So you need to learn yourself and know yourself. I learned myself and I knew myself and I understood that my values, understanding how I devalued myself, how I now see value in myself. And I want others to raise themselves up as well.

And so that is what drives me a lot within all of my work. That's why I'm into storytelling and what changing narratives and all of that. That's why I do BYP stuff. And so the community stuff kind of enforces who I am as a person. And hence when I sell myself as a business. As a professional and all of that, people buy into me because they understand that I am more than me.

I am an impact and I'm a movement by God's grace. And so they're willing to invest and at least try me out. The worst thing that can happen is that they're going to get a jiggy boy who talks while he walks. And is nerdy about random stuff. 

But, does that answer your question? I think even like, there's two things I want to highlight from what you said.

I think one. Um, comes, like, again, to like a, like, spiritual point. Um, because there was this, uh, really interesting sermon, uh, this great guy named Bobby Shuler, uh, he does these things, he does, like, a weekly sermon called Out of Power at the church on a Sunday, but they upload it on YouTube, so you can check them out.

Um, but he said, like, it's really keeping, I think, from, like, the faith aspects is very important, but also if the people you meet aren't Christians. It's still very important as well, but you're just like, God is more interested in who you become than what you accomplish. And it links to what you were saying there of, with the interview, people are more interested in who you are as a candidate than, essentially, even if you've got every skill required on the, on paper.

Because there are people, like you say, that like, have all this, like, they exceed the job requirement. They are like. Like, on paper, they're the best candidate, and come to the interview, people are just like Yeah, you can tell this person that is not interested in this job at all. They just want it for maybe the name of the organization, maybe the pay right, whatever.

But they're just like, I can tell this person isn't interested. And, um, it reminds me  of, um, coming off the job that I've got at someone's house. Like, for that interview, one of the interviewees, like, uh, for my first interview, turned around and was just like, Hey look, like, I don't mean to be like,  sound harsh or rude or anything like that.

But I just want to know, like, why are you applying for this job? Because they were just like, oh, like, if you, like, look on paper, you, like, you've never done, like, supporting my businesses. Like, yes, I've got obviously done Pick Up The Mic and stuff like that, but, like, through a, like, you know, working at an established organisation, I've not done it.

I just told them, like, look, I was just like, hey, look,  I'm, I'm a, like, there's, like, there's two aspects. I said, through Pick Up the Mic, I've always loved, like, helped, like, I like helping people. Pick Up the Mic has been giving me a really unique opportunity to, like, showcase resources, connect different people together.

I know we'll do great work together. But I said also, like, I'm a black business owner, so if I'm on a program to support black business owners, I'm like, I know what, even if they don't necessarily know everything that they need, I'm like, I know at least some of the things that they need. So I'm like, I've got this unique experience and knowledge that comes from just,  like, being a business owner that I'm, and especially within the creative industries where funding isn't always as clear, there's not always as many funding opportunities, sometimes they're very limited or small budgets, but I've been able to make a business work from like being, even being in that space.

So  I think for me, sometimes it's just like you said, like, it's just remembering like the type of person you are, is what really matters.  It's the type of thing that leads to, like, organizations wanting to work with you, and to meet with you, and it's the type of thing that means that people want to mentor you, and jobs will want to hire you.

It's never because of, like, You being like a bad person or whatever or stuff like that. It's like no like you are a great person I want to hire you because of it and yeah, one final thing to say on this I think I mentioned on previous episodes, but the first Well not the first, I dropped, but the year placement I did for my undergrads  My, so the person who was my manager, she was on the interview panel, and so, in my head, all that happened was, I went to do the interview,  I thought it went well, on the train journey back, like the farthest I've ever heard back from a job, um, she tells me like, you've been hired, do you want to work for us?

I'm like, thanks. Uh, then afterwards, we were just talking about it, uh, I think it was maybe, maybe like coming to the end of like, The first maybe three or four months of working with her. And she was just like, she was telling me, she was just like, Do you know why, like, I hired you? like, No, I don't. And she was just like, I'll tell you why.

She said, When you came, like, she was like, I've done a lot of interviews. And that's not to say, like, any of the other candidates weren't bad. It was a long day, I'd seen, like, It was just, like, very much repetitive, like, Uh, you know, nothing was necessarily standing out from it. And she said, you know the first thing I noticed about you?

And I said, what? She said, as soon as you saw me, and you, like, going into the, like, I said hello, and we, we, we had, interview hadn't even started, but I just saw you, came over, shook your hand, I said, you just smiled. I had a long day, a lot of interviews, I was just like, oh gosh, it's almost done. And she was just like, as soon as you smile, obviously I did well, I mean, interview yourself.

You can do the job. I can do the job. But she was just like, yeah, like, you smiled, you, you like, were, you made jokes. Like you were, you were very receptive. And she said, that just showed the type of person that you were. And she said, like, if it was up to me, I wouldn't have hired you.  Like, obviously like, cool. 

HR purposes. You can't just like be like, yeah, this person's getting hired. But I mean, she was just like, yeah, if I ran the company, um, I would have hired you straight away because you just, Like that showed me your, like those first, that first interaction showed me your character and showed me who you were.

Um, so with all of that to just basically say to people that, um, never forget that your first, you can never make a second first impression. So whether it's interviews, yeah, whether it's interviews, whether it's like talks, whether it's like you're looking for like sponsorship, like that first interaction you have with someone is what's going to be in their mind of when they think about you.

And if that is. Like, like you said, like, you're applying for a job and you're just like,  Yeah, I don't really know what I want to do with my career. And arguably you can, like, you can be honest like that. But I think it's like you said, like, you can express, even if you don't know what to do, don't necessarily go in and just be like, I don't know what to do.

And like, I'm just here for the vibes. You know, you got a nice salary. Um, I have been told through my, uh, the career advice team from my university said that sometimes they have had people like, have said that in interviews and they're just like, Why did you say you were only interested in the salary?

Please. Please find 

a 

door. Please find a door. But it's about like, like I said, like just being like, Oh yeah, um, I'm really interested in the company. Or like, I really love this area of work. Or I've been supported by people in X. So like even arguably like that job. I said I'd work, like I've been on programs that focused on promoting like STEM with young people.

So I said I went to St. George's, I did a residential with them. I knew, like, even when I went on it, I was like, I'm not that interested in the medical field. But I was like, I wouldn't mind to learn, like, when am I going to get this opportunity again? And I said, that really impacted me. Yes, I didn't go on to do medicine, but I said, I've got to go to university.

I've got to stay in university halls for a week. I got to learn about like, yeah, that field. And I was just like, 

when's the next 

opportunity that I'm going to learn about that? Or I didn't even go to that university. So for me, I was just like, yeah, I've seen the benefit it can have. And they might not, like people might not necessarily think, Oh, because I didn't go to St.

George's, like.  That program didn't impact me, but it got me interested in STEM. It got me thinking about, like, what other aspects of STEM I could get involved with. Um, and like you said, it allowed that, like, creative expression and learning to come through. So, yeah. 

So, like, two things I'm going to add to this.

One is, um, so, first impression is very interesting. So, when I was leaving the US, um, There was this job that I just got an interview for, and I was leaving anyway, but I was like, you know what, might as well just do an interview. So I rocked up to the interview, I was 10 minutes late,  and I was walking in, um, and there was, there was a table, three of them were just sitting at the table, they were just eyeing me as I walked into the room.

And you know, I was just smiling like, hi, hi, hi, and they were just like, you were 10 minutes late. And I was like, yeah, no, I had some, I had some issues parking, da, da, da, da, da, but I'm here now, let's have a conversation. And I was like, yeah, no, And I just went into it,  we ended up talking a lot, just about life.

We barely spoke about the job. And then at the end of the interview, they were just like, you can do the job, right? I was like, yeah, okay, cool. But I didn't think I got that interview because I wrote up late. We just chatted about life and about their goals, how they got into marketing. So it was a marketing role for, um,  They're an energy company based in Minneapolis.

Um, and so I was doing a, um,  like a coordinator role there for, for marketing and events for them. And, uh, yeah, so we just ended up talking about energy. I was super into energy at the time. So I was talking about like solar panels being planted in parts of Northern Minneapolis. I was talking about how hydro is growing and all of that.

I was just talking about energy and all of that. We just, just chat, chat, chat, chat, chat. And then you end up just like, Yeah, so the role, the actual role, yeah, we need to talk about that. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's calm. I've done stuff like that before. They was like, okay, cool. Bye. Didn't think I got the job.

Just thought we had a nice chat. I got a call one week later, they want to hire you and they want to increase your base salary because they felt that you are overqualified for the thing.  I was leaving the country, so I didn't take the job, but it goes to the part. Yes, even if your first impression isn't the best, because their first impression of me was, is this late boy what's not into a thing being all giddy.

But because of the level of conversation, enthusiasm, and my understanding of who I was going into, they even thought I was more experienced than I initially came in. And so they were willing to do that, even increase the salary. So I will say this.  Know what you're trying to get into. I don't know why. 

Because as someone who has hired and fired people, so let's come from somewhere else, I've managed teams, I've hired people, I've fired people, I've given people probation, all of that. As someone who's trying to hire you onto my team, one of the first things I'm looking for is 1. Do I even like this guy?

Can I work with you? Or am I going to get pissed off? 2.  Competency. You need to be able to do things, but most things in jobs are learnable. You can learn most skills. That's, that's not the biggest thing in the world, especially if I'm hiring for a multi union position, you can learn. I'm not too worried about that.

So I need to like working with you. You need to be hireable. And then energy needs to be there. Because jobs aren't sexy. There are going to be days when it's boring AF.  Are you going to come to this job, get bored and duck out? Because I'm trying to grow my team. I have four casts. I have levels I'm trying to get at myself as a manager, because you also need to understand that I get evaluated based on my team's performance.

And if my team is performing under par, then it's not they don't get blamed, I get blamed, right? And so I need to make sure that I'm operating in the best way possible, both through me and the team that I'm working with. And so as an interviewer, I'm looking for energy. I'm looking that you know the job and I'm looking for just like, do I even like working with you?

And so have that in mind as you're going to jobs. I'm not sure the levels that you are, you're everyone who your audience is, but certainly as you go up the chain, your personality matters more because there's less, there are less regional director roles than there are analyst roles. Which means you're competing with a lot of a larger pool and you're going to need more internal buy in to get the job that you're looking for. 

So people need to know about you, you need to have done excellent work and then you need to be someone who people actually want to work with. And that's what's going to allow you to climb the ranks. I climbed the ranks quite quickly in my company. You can do that too  if you have those things. But yeah, those are my two points there.

So just be thinking about that as you, as you go to whatever career, career, even business that you're 

going to.  Ah, definitely. Um, yeah. Yeah, really appreciate it. Alright. We're gonna go on to passing the mic. Yeah. We will, obviously there's only one mic between us, so there's no visible passing.  But, 

uh, I will now be interviewed, so please let me know what questions you would like to 

ask.

Jeffrey, you said at the beginning of this interview, I'm doing a lot of stuff. You said I'm also doing a lot of stuff. How do you go about focus? 

Uh, honest answer is sometimes it's like all over the place. Um, so there are some days where it's like,  I've got  Like, I try to pick up the mic and I'm like, this is what we're working on this week, or this is what we're working on this month. Sometimes, because like I said, I do different things, sometimes it's just like, sometimes it's reactionary, so sometimes I might be like, okay cool. 

I've got this video that I want to do, I've got this recording, okay, let me think about this, this and this, and then I'm going like, oh yeah, you know what, for this other project, I need to do this, or, oh actually, you know, there's these photos that I need to edit. So sometimes I might be like, so the biggest advice that I would say is, it's about like strategizing your day.

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So again, that's better help. Dot com slash pick up the mic, M I C, uh, and start your journey today. I think when it comes to focus, it's about finding that like strategy that works for you. So sometimes it can look like, like we said, like automating stuff. So I said the biggest tool that, um, especially with like on the occasion, cause this was something I didn't actually originally know, but it's YouTube.

was YouTube,  like, 10 years ago, uh, or even like 15 years ago, you couldn't upload video content, like, in advance. So you couldn't schedule it to be released in advance. It was literally like,  it's coming out today, it's coming out today, like, whatever time. Um, so I tell people, like, if you are, like, Now that Instagram, LinkedIn, TikTok, all these platforms are allowing you to schedule, schedule your content, because you might be like, Oh yeah, on Tuesday, you know,  there's this video that's coming out, I'll remember until I post it.

But then,  Tuesday it might come, other things will pop up, and then it's Tuesday evening, you're like, Oh gosh, the video I was supposed to post, do I post it now, or do I just wait until tomorrow? Um, let's just go through that today, the video I wanted to post.  . 

It's  

one of those things where it's just like the more like I tell people, like just balance it out.

So like think about if there is certain content that you want to like, yeah, schedule. Schedule it. Obviously there is some stuff that I don't know, like if you, I don't know, like go, you might go on, might go to an event, so there might be like a reaction close. Because you went to the event. So that's why I'm just like, there are some stuff that you can't like, pre schedule.

If you go like, every week, I don't know, you post one motivational, like, video, then record some of the Like, even if you're recording like, two or three in a day, cause I also think sometimes people feel like that. They feel like, oh, like, I can't like, do batch content. If I upload different videos in the same outfit.

It doesn't look good on my feet. And I'm just,  I think it depends on what you do. I guess it's like, the free content. Most people don't care. But yeah, most people don't care. If I'm watching a creator and, you know, they're talking about something, and they're wearing the same outfit that they did for the last video, 

You just recorded, I just now know you recorded your content, all like, all in one day. Fair enough, I'll do the same. So, I think I've told people, like, just don't, what, uh, so yeah, so when it comes to, like, staying focused, it's just like, having that schedule, planning out your stuff, um, and then yeah, I think finally, just,  like, learn to delegate.

So, like what you said, like, about team, I think for me, the biggest thing was, um, So we had two interns over the summer, one of them like, so both of them didn't have experience in like videography, but one of them was a videographer. They had a lot of experience in like, photography. So,  I started off by telling them, okay look,  here's some like content we shot at different events. 

Create a video from it, like a short summary video, and then you did. And then I was like, cool, these are my comments. Then I was just like, cool, um, There's others, there's other guys on the team, they now teach Premiere Pro. Speak to them, learn, like, do a walkthrough of Premiere Pro with them, and then let's go through it.

So they did. Then I went through a walkthrough with them about some stuff that's useful to Premiere Pro. Then I said, okay, cool, I want you, so it's one of those things where, on the day, I was, so I told him, like, so we came into Fortnite as a banjo, today we're going to do something a bit different. You're going to shoot,  that's like, shoot, so shoot, so he did like some gaming videos, so I said, I'm going to give you the gaming tips.

You're going to come up with a script, you're going to edit down the, like, video, like, the clips, including the one, you're going to match up the audio, and you're going to create a video from it, to send it to me by the end of the day, at least now, before I don't know if I'm going to be able to answer that.

Look, let's see how it goes. If you do it, great. If you don't, it's on the world. Let's figure out why you want to do it, because it is that way. He did it, and it was just like, cool, I've done it, it's really good. Um, but it's just like delegating that work, because, you know, If I had just been like, no, like, I'm going to keep everything because, like, it needs to be a certain standard and all this stuff, like, I then just end up being a little bit worse, a little stressed.

But if I say, hey, you know,  I know I can't do everything, so I'm going to let you do this because I know also this is like an area of confidence for you.  I'm going to let you do this because I know you also like, like, this is, this is something for you. Yeah. Then it just means that, like, you have time to just like relax. 

Have that, like you said, have that time to actually dedicate like a permanent strategy to the stuff you create. Yeah. That's  

good.  Delegate. And I think that's basically what I got from you. Really?  Yeah. Um, any 

other questions? And I don't know, um, I mean, I don't want to spoil anything, because obviously, I'm still doing a podcast.

I don't want people to get Yeah, you know, I mean, check out 

the other podcast.  It's called The Departure. How did you find my podcast?  I saw you run a podcast in Germany. How did you find our podcast? You're not just saying that for the 

camera, yeah? No, no, no. The camera's all about to be like, But honestly, it was really good.

I think for me, this year's going to look like, So this year was the first year I'd ever been invited to other people's podcasts. So it was really nice to see how, like, different people do podcasting, and then giving them advice on, like, how they do it. So one person, she recorded it through Teams, and then would record it on her phone.

So  Because you didn't want like, both of us to be like, speaking at the same time, any time she was agreeing with me. She would just like, say it on her voice and then she would like, match up the audio and all of this stuff. And I was like, this is a lot of work that you're doing. And I was like, do you know about like, Zencastr, Riverside, Um, and I said like, Can you software like this and just like, make it so much easier?

And I said, they do have free plans that, you know, you might not be able to record as much and like, can't quite walk. I was just like, It also depends on how many times you record a month. If you do, you won't record it in a month. And your recordings are usually like, I don't know, like an hour. Most of them will give you like an hour for free.

So, um, so yeah, so for me, it's really interesting to like see how different people record. Uh, one of them was in my person, and she, she had never done a video broadcast before. So I was like, look, I've got a space that I use. I was just like, why don't you come to the space? I'll work out everything. I'll, like, I'll technically be the one managing the recording, but it's your podcast because you'll be interviewing me.

I'm literally just making sure all the equipment is working. And that was fun. So it's like, interesting for other people to like, learn about. So for me it's been great to like, share that knowledge. But yeah, I really liked the podcast. It was good. It was really great.  The question's got me to think a lot, and stuff like  that.

Um, and definitely it's been interesting to like, reflect on. The journey of the like, I guess the last 25 years. Um, so yeah, I really loved it. I'm glad you did. You're the 

vlog man, because I want to try video broadcasting at some point. I kept telling myself, don't do it yet. First, get comfortable with you.

So I had to, you were the 14th episode.  So I wanted to do a few more before I started investing in video, because, you know, it's money. Because I'm trying to get a space in the hood.  Yeah, no, thank you. Glad you enjoyed it. You're welcome, you're welcome. Um, what platform should creators aim for now? What about social media?

Like,  podcasting or like, you know, in general, what do you think is the best leverage for a creator in today's world?  

I think the obvious one is like, TikTok. I don't post on TikTok enough to say I understand TikTok, but TikTok is one where I've seen like, even like, um, Like my manager, she, she's not like a content creator, she's literally just recording herself talking about like, stuff.

Even like my friend of mine, she does, she uh, she does the same thing, and they get like a lot of views. And then, uh, then like my manager was just like, oh yeah I've got like  20k views on this video, and I don't really know why. And I was just like, well maybe we should start thinking about ways that this could possibly get monetised, because if people are genuinely, I'm just saying, let's not. 

Like, every video gets 20k views, but she said sometimes it's just, she said it's funny, the ones that she like plans out don't always get those kind of views, but the ones where she's literally just like walking on the street and expressing that feeling, they're there, but the ones that are like, please.

So, I'd say TikTok's definitely a good one. I think if you do long perform content, YouTube is like, the best place to be. Because YouTube  like some, someone,  like there was this page that did like a post on, uh, on Instagram. They were just like, YouTube  is really like, as a space, it's really interesting because it dubs as a like, I guess traditionally what it is, like a space for people to  like watch videos on stuff, but it's also technically now.

It's like a masterclass space because you can basically learn anything as long as someone has made a YouTube video about it. It's also a platform to showcase your business. You don't have to pay to upload to YouTube. You don't have to, YouTube has, I mean like, audience wise YouTube is like, I  would like to save at least one million, but if not, millions of like, Yeah, that's the second most used social media platform.

Essentially it's that, and it's, and they like, open up stuff, like they open up stuff that it's now expanding. So, um, there's this page that I recommend for people to like, especially if you're thinking about getting into YouTube, it's like a great space to be on. It's called, um, Um, but they share on their platform like what changes happening to YouTube.

So they were saying apparently YouTube is like, this is a wild guess, I don't know if this is going to happen, but YouTube were allowing creators to set up YouTube playlists as masterclass courses. So if you do, yeah, so  YouTubers do like a video of like, oh, I'm going to teach you like, From 

A 

to Z, do you want to like, I think 

it's still good because I've noticed some creators, they started doing these how to series all of a sudden, a bunch of them started doing it.

I was like, wait, you do explain about what you did. And I'm like, I think it's a trend now. I think it's just a thing. They're like, how to start a YouTube in 2025. That's going to be the next YouTube. Like Marcus Brownlee, he started doing a series about making videos. Not sure if people like Marcus Brownlee or the OGs. 

It's got like something billion people coming in, um, and he starts doing a series about how he makes videos and all of that. All of a sudden I was like, what, what's going on? A lot of people go into the teaching space, actually, the course space, because there's money to be won.  Everyone loves to learn.

That's why, you know, Chris,  everyone loves to learn. So if you can teach someone something, they're going to like it. Just teach it the way they like to be taught. I 

don't think so. Even like, obviously like masterclass. Uh, and like BBC Mitro and stuff like that, they get like, it's a big platform, yes, they get like big celebrities or big, like big names in the industry who's fighting and stuff, but I think the biggest thing that people highlight is There's, there's nothing to say that the people that you're watching on YouTube can't give you 

that same input.

Your average Balaji, who just happens to be an analyst online, can tell you a lot of people. You know what I mean? 

And then, and like, people, and I tell people, like, these people, like, especially like, for example, like, you saw, like, with what's happening today, like, we've got, like, different cameras and stuff, but there are YouTubers who say, okay, cool, you've got a budget of 100, you wanna get a mic, cameras, like, recording software, this is what you need to do, like, this is how much you should spend.

You And these people have sometimes like their job was to like try and test this out. Yeah. So I tell people like, bear that in mind, like you don't have to go and spend like hundreds  of pounds on like different cameras and being like, I can't do anything with it because I can't return it now. So I thought I'd just tough up and use it.

No, there are YouTubers that say, okay, if you want to create a YouTube, this is a good beginner camera. If you've never used the camera before. If you know how to, like, customize cameras, exposure, like, autofocus, focus,  like, ISOs, all of this stuff, like,  this is the camera for you. If you want, like, the ultimate, like, best camera, this is for you.

If you have, like, like, all of this stuff, if you want, like, the simplest camera where it's just, like, shoot point, record in 4K, gives you loads of customization, um, this is for you. And I think people tend to forget that, like, these, like, these people will give you, like, For a lot of them, YouTube, there are articles that do it, but there'll be like,  cheapest version, best, most expensive, and then recommended.

And it's like, okay, cool, so now I know, if I just want to do this, and like, I'm not, I don't want to like, commit to this as a business, I just want to like, put my feet into this, this is what I can start with. And then, you know, once I've maybe like, started to use this, or getting a bit more like,  interested in it, maybe I'm even getting paid for it.

I could maybe go for like the recommended. And then if, you know, that's not bounced off, you know, this equipment's like, I'm trying to like expand my equipment repertoire so I can do more than like one thing, then you can get the most expensive and then you can like showcase that brand. Um, but yeah, for a lot of people, I think it's just like you, like YouTube, I think TikTok, I think TikTok, Instagram are places that people shouldn't avoid being on.

I think for whether you're a business or you're a creative, like whether you're a business or you're an individual, they're both great places to showcase you. I think longer term, um, YouTube will become like a place where, and I'm not saying like, I know obviously like, when it comes to podcasting, people feel like their life has been like sucked out, because every, like, five minutes it seems like every new, like, celebrity.

Like,  every person on the planet is like, I'm not with a new podcast. But I've told people that, podcasts and say that actually, you look at the, like, if you look into the podcasting, like, not every podcast that gets started is still around today. 90 

percent of them 

stop at episode 10. Do you know what I mean?

Even on This is an actual fact, you guys. 90 percent of podcasts stop at episode 10. And it's not even just like that. Sometimes people think, oh, like  I can't do a podcast because I know like, there's big celebrities in this thing. I have, there are like, bigger podcasts like, YouTubers, like actors, musicians, like, there's some of them that have just like, shut down.

They're, they're, like, maybe they still have the episodes out, but they're not producing new episodes because they're like, To them, podcasting may not necessarily be their main revenue. A lot of them, like, like podcasts in general, did start through the pandemic, because obviously people had more free time.

But now, as things have eased up, like, people are back to busy schedules. So, I tell people to actually know, like, even if you do look and see that, I don't know, like, JoeBlob's got like, a podcast that you want to do, don't feel like you can't get into long form content, or you can't even, like, even if you don't want to do a podcast, you just want to do like, a YouTube, like, you talking to the camera.

It's like, don't feel like you can't, because someone's talking about the same thing as you. Um, so yeah, so I think those three platforms, I think, Instagram and YouTube, uh, sorry, Instagram and TikTok, definitely be on, especially for short form content.  I think YouTube  for that like, for all three, so for short, medium, and long form content, YouTube is like a place where you can just utilize that, like all three of those things.

Um, and then yeah, means that like, when you're posting, like if I'm presenting this is, means when you're posting like, you don't have to, so on YouTube like a long form video every week. You can be like, okay, this week, then I'll put like three YouTube shorts. Uh, next week I'll upload, like, a 15, or a 4 minute clip from this episode.

Uh, the next week, or like, I'll do a 4 minute clip, and then I'll do, like, uh, 8 minute compilation video of different things I've spoken about through that, through that, like, previous week, or through that month, even. Um, I might even do a roundup of what was, what happened that month. Um, and then you might turn around and be like, oh, finally, you know, for this next episode, I'm gonna do, like, for the next week, I'm gonna do, like, 

And then you might be like, follow me, I'm going to do a live stream. So there's a lot of like, flexibility in it. But I think if, I think if you want to,  I think, let's do this. If you're an individual, LinkedIn and TikTok are great places to be. Instagram, sorry, LinkedIn, Instagram and TikTok are great places to be.

I do think LinkedIn is important. I know that there are people that are just like, again, LinkedIn, LinkedIn, LinkedIn, LinkedIn, LinkedIn. Self glorifying, like, promotion service, and people just talking about their successes and stuff, but I've said, DINGO. So it's everywhere. Exactly. And I also said, like, maybe you could 

be a person that's just 

like, nah, I'm not  

There are people who make posts about how annoying LinkedIn is and they get thoughts out of their face and then afterwards they're like, Oh, I'm an angel and stuff like that.

It's funny. Like, but in the end, what is Instagram? It's the same thing. You know, people get tired of Instagram because it's all talking about hiring more people, hiring more spiders. That's how people follow a lot of Facebook as well. Everyone's just chatting about, you know, it's just a,  it's a reflection of society. 

But, align with you. That makes a lot of sense. Uh, but the only thing I would say in addition is that TikTok and Instagram, in the long term, their business aim is to be a shuggable  platform,  meaning they are trying, yes, they create content, but in the end, they're trying to become a store where you can watch content and consume  because there's a lot of profit in there.

And I'm not just chatting about this. I work in advertising, their sales reps literally tell me what they're trying to do and this is literally what they're trying to 

do. 

Um, so if you're someone who you're making content and your goal is to eventually sell products, whether that be beauty style, shirts, whatever your product is, Um, know that your presence on the platform with a loved one is a good idea, because eventually when it has more showable features, they're going to push you more than they push others, because you'll be able to utilize the showable features more. 

So, 

keep that in mind. That platform's great. Yeah, and I think, uh, one, when you mentioned like showable features, uh, and like making content for that platform, it reminded me that like, I don't know if you, are you on, are you on Snapchat? I have no answer, I'm sorry. You guys need to know, I have no 

answer. I'm sorry, I know it's not just a big thing, but I'm like, I remember when it first came out, and I'm sorry, I can't go back.

No, like,  

the reason why I mentioned it is because I'm young, I feel like No, I don't mean like, I haven't used it, um, I haven't used it for a while, but like, what surprised me, I told my sister They were making, so on Snapchat, they were making video content exclusively for Snapchat. So Snapchat was like hiring actors to like make, so some people were hosting like, they're like, not their full length like five minute YouTube videos, but it would be like a two minute video cut up into like one minute like  segment pieces.

But yeah, like this was 

definitely before Covid, like they were just like, Posting like T, like they were coming up with their own Snapchat original shows. And I was like, but this isn't what Snapchat is for. Like, I'm literally just, I'm just here to like, flick through content. And now you're telling me, if I want to watch a show, I should sit here for like 10 minutes flicking through Snapchat?

And I'm just like, even arguably, and that's what I like about LinkedIn, and I think you can do it on certain, like if the TikTok post is long enough, you can do it. Like when posts allow you to like, go move the like, start time. Yeah. Cause like, with that subject view, you couldn't do that. So if you watched like, I don't know, the first, I don't know, like, 2 slides, and then maybe like, Stop.

You, you start, and then if your phone like, restarted, you might be taken back to the beginning. And then you're just like, now I'm gonna have to like, keep, press it, and obviously it doesn't, like, 1 minute. So you're just like, smack, smack, smack, smack. My thinking process is like, nah, you're not. If it's on YouTube, watch it on YouTube.

So yeah, I guess that's a good point to mention as well. Um, Ben, I don't know if it's the end of the month. Um, the end of the month, as always, is an organization of individuals doing incredible work to support you guys.  Uh, and I think one key one to highlight, Is, uh, BYP Network. So as I mentioned before. Oh, you were judging me.

As a way for the guests to know who the MC of the month is. Uh, but yeah. Uh, they do a lot of incredible work to advocate for essentially, like, young professionals. Uh, they create, like, they create spaces for you to connect. To attend events where you can, like, meet industry professionals. They do work to help you improve your own, like, like we mentioned here. 

Get on it, too.  They can help you with that. They also have a platform where you can connect with, what was the name of the platform? Yeah. Um, but you can connect, like, sort of like, I guess, um, would you say it's like a network of LinkedIn? Yes, it's like the 

BYP have a number of opportunities from our partner organisations.

On the platform, uh, for you to get access to and the great thing is that they come directly from the organizations. A lot of times when you're going on jobs on LinkedIn,  honestly, it's very few. You've seen a hundred plus applicants. It'll be hard to stick out. But those who have the right partnerships with, with the organizations.

We take you straight through it, and we also have an AI within it, so that way you're not just getting random jobs, you're getting jobs aligned with your CV that you upload onto the program. And that also has a number of growth tracks as well, so as you grow in your field, you get better jobs for you that suit it to your skills.

So, get on Javlin, it's a great platform.  Great opportunity for you and of course you get to chat with other people in the network too. Just to say as well, BYP every year we have this event called New Year New Network. Because it's about meeting new people at the beginning of the new year and you never know who you might meet.

You might meet me, you might meet Jeffrey, you might meet Oprah. That's a lie. I don't know. Well you could. You could. One day she rocks off. What are you saying man? So come to the New Year New Network.  It's a fun time. We have fun  games, drinks, food Actual food, not grass. I'm tired of these networking events.

I'm going to tell you 

to eat. I was at 

the GQ Club. I know, but yesterday, um, people saw like, you know, like, Chris, or something like that, and then people were just like Food. And I was like, look, don't worry, food's coming. They've got good stuff in the end. 

People are just like, ah! So you mean like actual food?

Um, yeah. We need to clarify. No, I genuinely, no, I genuinely said, 

because I'm just like, if anyone puts like, unless you put like snacks in the same food, I'm not even expecting a three course meal. No! But 

like, have  pizza. Have socialists, you know, like, a lot of people are claiming grass and then saying food. 

No, I was going to say, these 

events are in the evening. Yeah. You gotta be like, okay, cool, so I did not eat, I'm 

just eating, that's No, this is what happened. What? 

And then you're just like, okay, so when you said food, you were like, what the hell?  Because Chris Nah, nah, okay. Give me freedom! Give me 

freedom!

Okay?  Anyway, uh, come through. Still. Yeah, excellent. You are in. Nice. Nice. I'm the London Chapter Lead, so I hope we'll have some others for that. So, maybe, 

maybe for you as a potential, uh, person to be a doctor?  Yeah. Well, I think so, yeah. We're all, we're 

all fucking, uh, 

a little bit away if you can connect with us.

Yeah, just a bit. But, yeah. We now come to the final segment, which is, uh, Yeah. It's been great. It's been, I've always been brilliant, and, uh, I'm sure you guys have as well. Yeah. But, as always, we ask our guests, takeaway message. So what we've spoken about today. Yeah, we are. Um,  yeah,  I think one of the things that is like has been really empowering is  there's  not even just like anyone wants to get into data, but I think as of like, both as a business owner and as a student.

Someone who's like, well, maybe at the start of that career, maybe they're sort of understanding that career, or maybe they're like, trying to grow in that career. There's a lot of things that basically said, people should get married. So, basically, look at that.  What is the message that our audience should live up to? 

Take home.  That's it for us. Thank y'all for getting in. We'll see y'all next time. Hi. It's been a great time. Thank you for being here. You're still here. God 

bless you. God bless you. You sent me plenty of chips.  Made me fiery, made me spicy, made me sweet. And if you don't like spice, I'm sorry. Um, One thing I would say, We need to be bad so we can get good. 

A lot of people skip processes in the belief that they want the outcome,  but don't realize there's a reason why there's a process in place for you to get that outcome.  And it's hard to say because it's also embarrassing to get right, you don't want to be seen as not good or, you know. All that work in order for you to climb the mountain you need to start over.

The reason why is because you need to grow with every step you get. There's a higher altitude up there, there's less oxygen. You haven't trained your lungs to be able to take that capacity. You're going to get to the top, you're going to die. You need to develop and grow, which means you need to take the steps one thing at a time.

So be okay with being bad. Such that, in the long run, you will get good.  And it's hard, especially with mobile links and Instagram, right? You'll just see the best parts of people. But trust me, like, that actor that you love and all that other time, they'll forget what they've done. They'll do that on stage.

I won't go into time. Ed Sheeran. Ed Sheeran is a tight guy. He showed a video. When he first started doing the music, he was going, He sounded like that.  Ok, now he's good. Yeah.  Embrace the journey. Be patient. Your time will come. As long as you dedicate yourself to your craft. And to your process. So, be okay with being crap. 

So that you can get good. 

I think, even among these people, I'm not as much of a buyer as Sherry is.  So, 

I, I don't know. Like, that's how he did it. Jonah found out about it. He was saying, even off of me, I was into music. 

Then, people were just like, Uh, So, that's what I'm on. Um, and people were saying, like, Look at Matt, like, He's performed across the world, he's booked out stadiums, and like, people write love, like, love him for him.

Ginger and Hawks, yeah! Now people say like, the 

fact that, like, even obviously, like, 

um, there was a song that he did with Stormzy about taking me, like, Prince will take me to London, or take me back to London. Um, that song, apparently, I don't think 

Ed Sheeran is a person. I think 

Ed Sheeran is a person. He's not a woman!

Yeah, he's not. Um, but he is. 

I think he's only supposed to sing the  chorus. We're going to have, 

don't ask me why, but it's going to be Stormzy and Jay Z who are going to perform the verses. And I think Stormzy was the story. And then I've heard of it, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then Jay Z was in it as well. It doesn't make sense.

Like, you're not from the UK. Not from the UK, London. Um, but then yeah, Ed Sheeran was like, yeah, like, Henry was in it, I've never heard of him. Raps, he's, he's like, kind of cool. He's like, let me, let me ask you about this. And like, people loved that song. People were just like I think I said it in the intro, but it's not from London, so it's kind of like, I can't really imagine it.

But Rico was just like, no, I'm really cool. Even when I hugged him, I was talking about it to my sister. And my sister was just like, to her. Imagine, he's sitting in a song. I forgot what it's called, but um, I was supposed to remember my name, but in the song, he's just like, oh yeah, I want to play a song.

Like, I want to have a song with 50 Cent and Eminem. 

And on that song, he's got both of them for me. So the first time I heard that song, I didn't even know they were in it. It's all stuck. 

How  much of a chiller is in the moment? That's 50 percent in every other point of the soul. And then when I have 50 percent I'm just like,  Okay, so you've got 50 percent and I'm just like,  And then when I have 50 percent I'm just like, I don't know.

So literally, in the soul, you're saying that you also know what's happening. Like, that's showing you, where like you said, like, when you just keep working and stuff, like, 

Cause in the end, 

this life is a longevity game. 

It's not about, wait, what what? It's about, 10, 20 years later, are you still doing the thing?

And that's why we need to be careful of the temptation of instant gratification, the temptation of, let me do this quick, quick, quick, quick. And I get it. I get it. Because a lot of us come from a place of not having, and so there's an addiction into becoming someone who has, and I get it because I'm there too,  but when 10,  20 years go by, you're not going to be saying, how this person came up with me.

You're going to be like. Did you last? Because that's actually the better definition of success, not how quickly did you do it, but did you last when you got there? Because there are a lot of people who get into positions they are not prepared for, and they suffer for it. They don't talk about it, but they suffer for it because they want credit to get there.

Take your time, go through the process.  Get good at taking place, because that way they can make you, you know, go and do your presentation. I'm going to start preaching in a minute. I don't know what 

you're 

doing. 

We're in the middle of setting up a building. Hopefully that's a 

good take away. That's a great idea. Um, yeah, we're going to wrap it up there. It's been great speaking to you. Yeah. Um. Yeah man, everyone's Asian. My cheeks hurt, and all the laughing and smiling. I come with the new knowledge. So, honestly man, so much for coming on.  Thank you. Uh, this is where shameless plugs, uh,  any episode you want to put out, how many people can mention you, anything like that.

This is your time to put it all out to 

the world. Okay, cool thing, um, see, just let me recap. Um, what was it, five years ago, I was on my first ever podcast. It was when I was in Nigeria, uh, because I was helping a start up there, and this guy was just like, Oh, you came from America, you're in Nigeria, listen to me.

Um, and then we did the interview, and at the end he said, Okay, what do you want to vlog us with? At that time I had no social media, I had no nothing, so I was just like, I don't know, um, here's my email. Hahaha.  My name is Aaron Aiuwa, you can look at me on the docks and It's a boy  But wait, how long 10 years ago?

A long time ago So ever since then I was just like raw Okay, when I get asked this question I mean I always tell this, whenever I do this video I actually take real appreciation of this Because I remember when I was like But, yeah LinkedIn Obina Emoji, that's O B I N D A I-W-U-J-I am LinkedIn. Uh, that's actually my, my biggest platform where I really do my,  also on Instagram under nearly charisma.

Um, just a plug as  well. I'm working with some amazing people to study Auroras. Uh, we're taking the data of solar waves as they hit the planet and touch the magnetic field and create the auroras. We're taking that data and we're creating an experience out of it next year. We're working in collaboration with the, um, Observatory.

So, it's going to be a really fun one. We're making it a show. I told you I'm in theatre, so it's going to be a fun time. So, stay tuned for that. Follow the Insta so you can get more information on that. We're also currently doing a campaign, uh, to support girls in low income countries, uh, with sanitary pads.

I'm not sure if you have, um, a jacket on. Am I allowed to say that?  Am I allowed to say that? People with them, they tend to have periods. And, they 

tend to have periods, 

um, because they don't know. Which means that they're in need of sanitary pads in order to take care of that. But in some places in the world, uh, these products are not cheap.

It's already more cheap in England, especially with the recent tax implications. And now the country is even more expensive than it is over the world, which means the cost of having a period of being a woman in the world for some girls who don't have the finances is a lot more expensive than others.

And so we're working with a number of organizations across sub Saharan Africa, you know, to get donations to support these girls in getting sanitary products. We're doing an amazing, major piece of research with, uh,  So, looking to follow to learn more about that and again, empathy, right? I'm not, I don't have, which I have.

I've seen this word a lot specifically and I'm sorry if it hurts your ears, but I've seen it a few times because as part of this research, I had to confront the fact that as a man, I am not empathetic to the experience of a woman because I don't go through it, simply because I don't have the skills. Um, and so, I need to normalize that language because if I actually want to have a daughter, she goes through a period, am I just going to look at her and be like, you have that, that, that, that?

You know what I mean? So, I have to get used to the language. Sorry if it was jarring for some of you, I apologize, but that's where it's coming from. Um, but we need to be empathetic to other people's experiences, and I love talking. 

Well, 

for your time. Uh, thank you to your wonderful audience for coming out.

Uh, if you liked this episode, like and subscribe. We always appreciate it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Please make sure 

No, no, no, I'm just gonna let it sit for a day now. I said I'd be here until it was allowed. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. You should allow 

me to do the talking, man. Oh, okay. Uh, in truth, I think you should only eat half of it a year if you swell on the first half of the year.

Is it? Oh, my bad. No, no, no, no, no, no. 

If you want to know about more episodes of this or like, keep up to date with what's coming out on the Picard. 

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channel specifically, make 

sure you click the notification bell. Uh, finally, over at Mets, if you want to see some 

perks, some merch, get some benefits, uh, please do make sure you subscribe to our Patreon page. 

or the YouTube channel down below, and finally, if you want to learn about the Keto edit and mix, if you want to learn about our other channels, maybe it's the sci fi and anime, so sci fi, fantasy, anime, gaming, then we have three separate YouTube channels set up that are for you, you have to pick up the controller for our gaming enthusiasts, we have stuff like that.

Uh, for sci fi and fantasy lovers, we have The Two Maces with Joshua and Morgan.  And finally, we have, uh, A Scented Anime. 

Come out before this episode, or coming out. So, keep an eye out in space. Um, but yeah. Remember, follow us on Snapchat at The Student Guide. It's been great, uh, having you all with us. It's been great, it was you, Bob and I. Uh, and yeah. Keep an eye out for the 

next episode, where we will see you all shortly.

Bye. See you later.