The One Thing Every Beginner Coder Gets Wrong

In this episode of The Student Guide (Season 9), host Jeffrey welcomes Ruth, a pharmacist turned self-taught software engineer now working at a London investment bank. Ruth shares why having a clear project goal matters when learning to code, how she started with web design and front-end development before learning Python, and the resources that helped her (FreeCodeCamp, YouTube, Udemy, and Code First Girls). Learn about how you can pivot into tech today.

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Transcript

Um, the first thing I'd say is that it's always good to have a project or a goal mm-hmm. That you can work towards when you are learning something. 'cause I think you can learn how to code and you can learn like loops and iterations and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. That's all good and well. But if you don't have like a project like, oh, I wanna build, um, a game and this is where I'm learning Python, or I wanna build a website and this is why I'm learning JavaScript, I think it can be quite hard to like follow through.

So I'd always say start with, um, a goal, which is a project, not just, I wanna learn JavaScript kind of thing. Uh,

hello everyone. Hope you're doing well. Hope you're gonna ask this. Oh, so sorry I didn't tell you this. Um, I, I can say, I'll say it in the end episode. Anyways. You are our first guest of the new season. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. So, uh, even though you're not the first episode of the year, you're the first guest of the new season.

Um, but yeah. Hello everyone. Hope you're doing well. Hope you're looking after yourselves. Welcome to another episode, but also another season of the Student Guide where we bring on incredible people talking about incredible topics and so much more. Uh, we are excited to be a part of, uh, season nine, uh, which is wild to say.

Um, and I do have a soundboard. Uh, you would've noticed it from the last episode, and as I tried to quickly get to the audio effects, I Oh no, the wrong button. Uh, there we go. And let me go to the applause because yeah, we, I hope this is the Yes, it is the applause. Uh, because yeah, we, on season season nine, um.

We're slowly approaching Season 10, the big a hundred. Uh, but yeah, we've got an incredible guest lined up for you this season. Uh, and why not start with our incredible guest for today's episode? As you all know, I hate doing introductions because I think people won't want to hear from me. You hear from me more than enough.

But we wanna hear from these incredible people. So instead, I'm gonna hand over to today's, uh, guests. Could we know a bit more about you and what you do? 

Of course, of course. So, um, hello. First of all, it's an honor to be here. This is my first podcast, so like, I'm okay. It's my debut. So this is really exciting for me.

Um, but yeah, my name is Ruth, so I am a pharmacist, turned software engineer. Studied pharmacy at university, became a pharmacist, decided it wasn't really for me. Um, and then went down this self, self-taught route. Mm-hmm. So I taught myself how to code and now work as a software engineer at an investment bank.

Wow. And, um, yeah, I work with people who are. A bit like I was when I was a pharmacist. Unhappy with their careers, unhappy with, um, where they are and wanna like, switch careers either into tech or, um, any other industry. Um, 'cause I'm really passionate about making sure people don't stay stuck. 

Mm-hmm. 

So, um, yeah, that's me.

Okay. It's not one of the questions listed here, but, uh, I'm excited to, to ask this and also to know the answer. Mm-hmm. Um, what has been the most interesting, like within your role mm-hmm. That you've seen like a career switch and maybe it's like two different industries that you're like, I can't even see.

Like the switch seems like it should be wild. Mm-hmm. But someone's been able to do it. 

Hmm, good question. Maybe. Teacher into tech. 

Okay. 

Because at least for example, pharmacy Mm. There's an element of STEM and stuff like that and maths and stuff that, um, you can, I guess use to apply to this new industry.

But teaching is completely different. Mm. Especially like someone, like an English teacher. 

Mm. 

Um, and so yeah, I think that's an, an incredible transition. Like you're literally learning from scratch. 

Yeah. Yeah. That's really cool. Um, and we will learn more about Ruth in just a moment. Uh, but as you all know, we don't start the episode without hearing from our 44 questions, uh, and 44 words, founder, uh, Amanda, who comes up with great questions to ask our incredible Yes.

Uh, and just come up with a great one today. Uh, which is what's a belief or assumption you've had to unlearn or reevaluate about yourself, but for you specifically focusing on your switch from pharmacy into software engineering? 

Hmm. So a, a misconception 

Yeah. Or belief that you've had to unlearn or reevaluate while you made this sovi?

About myself. Mm-hmm. Okay. Um, oh, I've got a good one. So basically, um, I attempted to like learn programming three times before and failed. So the first time was I was in, I think my second year of uni and I wanted to pick up Python because it looked cool. I was like, oh, this would be like a cool skill to learn.

So I tried to learn it. And if you've ever done, I dunno if you've done coding or 

I like one or two modules we had to learn. Okay. Yeah. We had to learn how to use R and like, 

alright then that's good. 

No, but never again. Never again. Like I did it in my first year for a module. I was like, 

just thought 

absolutely not.

I was just like, I appreciate my lecture for teaching. I was like, thank you, this is cool. Like I can say I've done a bit of coding, but afterwards I was like, don't, don't, please don't, don't be reaching out to me suggesting these kind of things. I wouldn't do this to you. It's not fair. 

Fair enough. At least you had your foot in the door.

We like that. We like that, we like that. We like a tryer. Um, but yeah, so in my second year of beauty I was like, okay, lemme try to learn, uh, Python. And then, um, the first like, um, lesson was print Hello World in your console. I'm sure like yeah, you've been through that. And I was like, I don't understand why you're making me print Hello world in the console when I can just write it on like in a word.

Like I didn't understand how it connected. I didn't understand how you go from that to build. Um. These big like applications. Mm-hmm. Um, and then when I tried it again, I got more into it, but I found it really, really hard, especially when I started looking at the theory and the programming aspects and stuff like that.

Um, and I remember in my, um, coding bootcamp, hopefully we will touch upon this like later, but my coding bootcamp, we had, um, some homework and, um, it was about object orientated programming. I won't go into too much, but like if you are a CS student, you know what I'm talking about. Um, and it was like the first time I touched this and I was like, I just don't get it.

Like, I think I might drop out because I just don't understand. Um, but long story short, I persisted, um, tried different things, failed, and then I like eventually got it, was able to complete the homework, submitted it, like, got a merit in that bootcamp. And I think what that taught me is that nothing is hard, it's just new.

Mm-hmm. And so you need to put in the hours and the reps and, um. Just be really dedicated to learning things. So once I kind of embedded that idea in my head, like, you can gimme a programming language, you can gimme a technical concept. I might not get it first, but I know eventually I will if I put in the time and put in the reps.

So, um, I don't find things as intimidating. 

Yeah. 

Because I know you can learn them, you 

can learn on the 

way you can learn 

them. 

Yeah. 

That's really nice. I think like, that's, that's nice for like many reasons, but I think to highlight the main reason is you, you kind of showed that like you don't need to be an expert at everything.

Mm-hmm. Like just, just like learn as you go along and that's okay. 

Yeah. 

Um, and obviously, like I said, we'll get into it a bit, but literally in this first question we'll talk about essentially that moment where you pivoted into going into tech. But you know, like you mentioned there, it's like great to see how.

Essentially you're like, I'm still gonna, like, it's okay. I don't need to know everything. Mm-hmm. I don't need to be like, there's no expectation of me to know everything at this start. I just need to be prepared to like, learn, develop, grow, get into this space and see where things go. 

Yeah. I would say put in the reps, like the gym, put in the, 

uh, but yeah.

Let's talk about the first, first question. Um, so our first official question to you is, as I mentioned, looking into this pivotal moment. So, you know, you mentioned that you trained, oh, your bio mentioned, sorry, that you trained and you worked in community pharmacy. 

Mm-hmm. 

And then there was that moment. Mm.

You're just like, I'm gonna switch into tech. 

Mm-hmm. 

What was, what was the, this isn't for me anymore moment. Hey. And what ma what finally gave you like the push to commit to this like switch? 

Mm. Um, do you know what, to be honest with you, Jeffrey? 

Mm. 

This moment came when I was in university and I think, I don't wanna say it's all pharmacy students.

Mm. But a lot of people call pharmacy students the. Medicine, dentistry rejects. Now don't, don't bite my head off for this. It's a wellknown thing. Like, you didn't get into medicine. You didn't get into dentistry. Right. Pharmacy, like you're studying medicine, you study like pharmacology, you study the body and stuff like that.

Biology, chemistry, it's like the next best thing. So I found that like a lot of people on my cohort really, really wanted to do medicine. Mm-hmm. But didn't get in. And, um, me, myself, I wanted to study dentistry, missed it by a mark, was like, okay, let me study pharmacy. 

Mm-hmm. 

So that in itself can tell you that it wasn't like a career path that I really wanted to go in.

Mm-hmm. And there wasn't a career path that like my whole cohort wanted to go in. Um, either, well, the majority of them. And then we did, um, placements. So like when you, as you study, I think like from second, even from first year, you have to do placements in like, um. Either hospitals or community pharmacy.

And I remember doing my, um, one of my placements in a community pharmacy and I was like a eager, optimistic pharmacy student. Mm-hmm. Like just ready to kind of see what it was about. And I remember the pharmacist was just miserable. Like absolutely miserable. And I was like, I just didn't understand. But I realized like, I don't wanna be like that.

Mm-hmm. Like I don't want to do this whole career path and then end up like her, no offense, I hope she's happy now, but um, I didn't wanna end up like her. Yeah. Um, and so that was the first one. And then like, just over the years I realized that pharmacy wasn't for me. I think the course was great. Mm-hmm. I think it was so interesting.

It's so multifaceted. 'cause you learn science, you learn business 'cause you have to like, know how to run your own pharmacy. You learn like health, economics, maths, like, just, it's, it's a great degree to do if you dunno what you want to do. 

Mm-hmm. 

Um, but I think it was just too repetitive and it lacked creativity, which is something that I really thrive off.

Mm-hmm. So even within uni, I did like, um, had like a small graphic design business. Okay. And would make like branding logos for, um, small companies. 

Okay. 

Um, and I felt like pharmacy didn't have that. 'cause you literally just have, we call it the bnf, it's basically the drug Bible. 

Mm-hmm. 

And it says it has every medicine in it, its side effects, has to take it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

So my whole job is just reciting this Bible based on like what conditions someone has. Um, and so I was like, I need something more. And then I was, I decided to finish my degree and then become a pharmacist before I looked at other, um, options. Just so that I had that, I guess safety net. 'cause I knew I could always go back to pharmacy if.

It didn't work out. Um, so yeah, it was just a long period of this isn't for me, this isn't for me, this isn't for me. I need to wait for the right time before I leave. And then when the right time came, I said, bye, thiss. Okay. 

Wow. Um, that is very interesting because for many reasons, one, um, I like that you have the confidence to realize this isn't for me and be like, it's okay.

'cause I think one thing that, uh, I'm sure as, as you are Nigerian, I'm not wrong as say 

Yeah. Nigerian. Ghanaian. 

Yeah. Okay. Um, I was like the surname. Yeah. Um, but yeah, but like, honestly, like for, for us, uh, well, for, for a lot, well, I'd say mainly for like, especially from like a, uh, you know, African, Asian, mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Caribbean household. Um. You, there's the expectation of you start this degree. You mean even when you're like, ah, I'm not really enjoying it. 

Mm-hmm. 

You need to finish it. 

Yes. 

Now thankfully my parents instilled, uh, instilled a key message to me when I was picking my degree. They were just like, look, there will be a PO point where you don't like your degree.

And I guess to everyone don't matter. Even if you think you love disagree, there'll be a point where you don't like it. 

Yeah. 

But they were just like, the most important thing is you're gonna be here for maybe three or four years. 

Mm-hmm. 

You need to focus on a degree that you are like, it will be tough in this part.

Mm-hmm. 

But I'm gonna come out of it with something that I enjoyed. Yeah. So I like the fact that like, my parents were just like, pick a degree. That's good. And the one that you feel happy with doing. And it weren't like, 'cause like for example, like my sisters both studied biomed. Mm. I knew from the get go biomes not for me.

My brother went into engineering. I was like, I barely like maths. Um, but I was really passionate about sustainability and, um, my degree environmental or my undergrad degree, environmental science was quite nice. 'cause it covers, like you said, like it's one of those degrees where. It covers so much. So like I would do lectures with biomed students.

Mm. Um, I would do, yeah. We learned about like literally like our first year, like we learn about the body cells. Oh, wow. All with biomed students. Okay. Um, but then my degree was also interesting because there were different modules where you learn about, so like we had a module on, um, epidemiology. So like the study of diseases and how it moves in a population.

We had a module like people could take on like construction. So if you were interested in sustainable construction, you could work with engineering students. Oh wow. We had one on, um. To be fair, it's, well, now I think about it. I don't know how we, how this links with computer science, but we had a module with computer science students with coding.

They 

just put 

you guys everywhere. But yeah, it was just like a degree that, like you, it encompassed like everything. And I liked Yeah. That's so cool. Yeah, 

I think those are the best. 

A hundred percent. Yeah. And like you feel really confident in it. Um, and I guess the point I'm just saying this is because I guess I was like, I liked that my degree had that.

So yes, there were modules that I absolutely detested. 

Mm. 

Uh, like I said, I lab work not for me. 

Mm-hmm. Not 

for me. You honestly, oh, I hated it. I like remember, especially when you do it and they'd be like, oh yeah, so. Do. You did the experiment, you followed the instructions. Yeah. Sometimes it doesn't work.

Yes. 

Write a report about it. I was like, so you want me to write a report? 

Sometimes you have to fake them tests. 

You see what I mean? 

I didn't see that. I didn't see that. 

Well, I was like, especially for my dissertation. I was like, and they was like, oh, do you wanna do desk based research or lab? I was like, absolutely not.

I'm like doing lab based research, so I'm gonna spend months working on dissertation. Mm. I've thought about this amazing experiment. I've tested it out, it didn't work. And then I have to write a report about it and then, and then I'm expected to pass from a report about an experiment that made me failed.

Yeah. 

God forbid. Um, so I was like, I know, but I like the fact that like, my degree had that. But I guess the point I'm trying to say is like, I like that you are just like, no, actually this isn't for me and I need to make a change. And I think people feel like they can't do that. Like if they're doing a degree, they need to commit to it and follow through with it.

Um, a bit of advice. Uh, I'm looking in two of the three, maybe potentially all three cameras. Um, but my advice would be, especially if you're a first year student, you may not know this, but your university within your first term, um. Ha basically, and it may have changed, but when I was at uni, universities had this thing where students can easily transfer to different universities within their first term of their first year.

Mm. So univer. So that's, that's a, like if you were first, if you ever been into university and you've been like, wow, my first term was like really nice, like super supported, the university was great. And then your second term or third term. It didn't feel like that. 

Oh. 'cause they know 

it's 'cause they know.

Oh. So they have a tendency within that, like first term, like obviously there are some degrees or universities that are really great. I know from also people's experiences who've been on the podcast and from those who haven't, they're like, not everyone's having a good time. So that first term is really when, like I would say to people, if you feel that your degree isn't really useful or the university is not doing your degree, well, you should think about moving.

Mm-hmm. So I, within my first year, there was, um, someone on my course who, she went to Royal Holloway, but she was like, I'm doing this course at Royal Holloway and I'm really not enjoying it. Like, the campus isn't great. I don't really like being here. So she was just like, cool, I'm gonna go to Bruno.

Instead, they do the same course, I've got the grades for it. And they were just like, yeah, cool. You can start. So even though she hadn't done. Her first term as assess like the first term assessments, you do uni. 'cause your first year doesn't count. She was able to then switch to a different uni and do the same course.

Um, and she started out first year? Yes. 

After 

uni. 

Yeah. So she did have, so she did her first term of her first year at Royal Holloway. And then halfway through she was just like, yeah, no, I, I don't wanna be here anymore. And then she applied, like she reached out to Brunell, spoke to Brunell. She told her university like, I'm so sorry, but like I'd ra I'm gonna transfer.

And then they said, cool, like you can transfer. So she came and joined my course in term two. So like from January. Um, so for us it was like interesting 'cause I was like, oh, I didn't even know you. Like, I feel like as soon as you were locked in, like you're locked into this degree and you could only do 

you have to catch up on exams or anything.

So funnily enough, I don't think so because especially she code. Yeah, because honestly, so again, your first year, I mean, I'm not saying failure your first year of uni, but like your first year of uni doesn't count towards your final degree. Yeah. So I think they were just like, ah, you know, like while it would've been good for her to have done this stuff, like I think they were just like, as long as you know, the basics, like, like I tell people my first year of uni, we learn about like.

S the, like it's key stage three. So like what's the cell, uh, what's the rest, like the different systems in the body, the mi um, honestly like key, like, I was like, okay, so like this is, and it was multiple choice exam, so I was also just like, okay, you know, she might have passed even if they told her she had to do it.

Um, but yeah, that's why I say like, if you are not enjoying your first year or like your first term of uni, definitely like. If your second choice is protect, like always keep in mind if you wanna go to another uni. I know my sister was saying the same thing. So I got into my second, Bruno was my second choice.

Queen Mary was my first. Uh, but funnily enough, I went to Neither's Open Day, um, which is something I would. Like, I enjoyed my time at Bruno. Bruno was great, but like, I know not going to my uni's open days was, yeah, risque. Yeah. Like when I tell you I was, I, I like people think, oh, I, I knew what I was going in.

Like I knew what I was going into. I hadn't, I didn't know a thing. I was like, I don't know. I don't know who my lectures are. I don't know anything about, I literally just applied on my course from UCAS website and I was like, Bruno offers this course. It sounds cool. I'm gonna apply. And yeah, I never, I never went to an open day.

Mm. Never like went on campus. So people were just like, oh, how'd you know about Bruno? I was like, oh, I knew people who went there. Mm. And like I knew, like my brother knew about the uni 'cause he was thinking of going there, so he was so, people were just like, it's a good uni. And I was like, oh, it's cool.

Lot of people's there. It's good. Like the degree is really bad. Like I'll just transfer. But then, so when I got into my second choice, my sister was just like, oh, you know, like I said, like dude, she was like, oh, you could do your like first term, see how it goes, and then transfer to Queen Mary. And I was like, eh, you know what?

This isn't that bad. Like it's a good course. Uh, I had a different uni like this has now become a whole separate conversation, which is now I need to bring back on topic. Yeah. But very final, like the quick summary is like my degree, like there was only like. Max eight, like I was, I went on a placement year, so I didn't graduate with everyone who was in my year, but like for my whole year.

By the end of year one, there was 18 of us. By the end of year two, I think two people dropped out. So maybe there was like 16, but like my degree was like small. So when everyone, everyone's just like, oh, I had like 200, a hundred plus people in the room. It's like. I had like less than my A level class.

That's a very 

cute cohort. 

Yeah, it was nice. It was good. Like we, we had like, we got along well, we all knew each other. 

It was in 

like, I knew it was one of those ones where like, obviously now, because you're so small, the lecturers also know all of you well enough. So they'd be like, okay, cool. We know like, who's the person that you know is the reliable one?

Who's always gonna be late? Who's a person? And also, bearing in mind, most of our lecturers were in like, not tiered seating, massive halls. It was like all like flat rooms and like a classroom. Like a classroom. Wow. So I was just like, so it was worse 'cause you couldn't even, like for people, I'm not encouraging this, I only, I never fell asleep fully.

I, those, my eyes were shouting a bit in my, my le in some of my lectures, but it was 'cause it was afternoon lecture, whole day. Um, but literally like my, I was just like, I can't sleep in this class. 'cause if I do, he will definitely see I yeah. Eyes 

will be on you. Oh, that's a shame. 

Um, but all of that fun stuff, uh, to bring it back on topic to say, definitely make sure you take the most of like your, like if you are going to.

So if you're not happy with a degree, definitely think about your alternative choices. Um, but yeah, we're gonna go into the second question, which is all about self-taught strategy. So you mentioned, you know, you uh, you essentially learned to code and you spoke. We can, this is essentially where we'll definitely touch about your, um, your bootcamp boot.

Yes. Yes, yes, yes. So, when you were learning to code, what did your weekly routine actually look like? So, you know, we're talking about resources, projects that you were doing time management, and what would it, and what would you do differently if you were to start again today? So if you were just like, I'm gonna, like you didn't know how to code, or let's say for example, myself, I dunno how to code, what would you be like, Jeffrey, this is what I did.

And this is my weekly routine. But for you, I would recommend do this. 

Okay. Um, so my routine, okay, so to backtrack 

mm-hmm. 

Um, the first thing I'd say is that it's always good to have a project or a goal that you can work towards when you're learning something. 'cause I think you can learn how to code and you can learn like loops and iterations and stuff like that.

That's all good and well. But if you don't have like a project like, oh, I wanna build, um, a game and this is where I'm learning Python, or I wanna build a website and this is why I'm learning JavaScript, I think it can be quite hard to like, follow through. So I'd always say start with, um, a goal, which is a project, not just, I wanna learn JavaScript kind of thing.

Mm-hmm. Um, so my quote unquote project, um, was that I wanted to build websites. Yeah. And this is because, um, you know how I previously said that I was a graphic designer. Mm-hmm. And I want, I did like branding for small businesses. Mm-hmm. There was a point where, um, I was running this on Instagram and a lot of the businesses that I was, um, designing for were on Instagram.

Mm-hmm. 

And then there was one day where Instagram went down and I was like, Hmm, you can't really rely on this, like social media sites. 

Yeah. 

Like, you need to have a base where people can find you, and that would be a website. And I was like, okay, cool. So this is something that I can potentially offer to my clients mm-hmm.

Because I want them to have a base. Mm-hmm. Um, because a lot of them at, at the time, were running their businesses through Instagram. So I was like, okay, cool. Let me, um, learn how to make websites and include this as a service I offer. So I started with like, no code slash low code web design. Mm-hmm. Which is probably much better.

Now that it was, we're talking four or five years ago. Mm. Um, but I realized with those, um, you couldn't really customize the websites as much as I wanted to 'cause I was doing it for clients. 

Mm-hmm. 

Unless you had something called like CSS and JavaScripts and this CSS JavaScript kept on coming up. So I was like, Hmm, okay, maybe I should learn this.

Mm-hmm. So that I'll be able to customize websites the way, um, that I want to. And so I started learning that. And to be fair, I started learning how to code by accident. Like I never learned how to code to become a software engineer. I learned how to code to make websites for the graphic, for the business design business that I was running.

Um, but then I was like, oh, this is kind of cool. Like, especially 'cause I started with JavaScript and CSS and I was doing like front end development. Mm-hmm. So for those who don't know, that's like. Everything you see on a web, a webpage or an application. So the buttons, um, in Instagram, the icons that you click on the feed, everything that you see 

mm-hmm.

I was able to like program this and I thought it was really cool and really gratifying. 'cause you can see the colors change, you can see the positions of the buttons change and I was like, oh, this is so much fun. Um, and so having a project and an end goal helped me, um, just have a aim when I was learning.

So I started with front end development because it was gratifying and easy to, to um, kind of keep to, and then to make like full stack applications. So back to front. Mm-hmm. You have to learn a backend language. And I started with Python just because it's very, very easy to learn. It's very close to the, like English language.

Mm-hmm. So very easy to pick up. And then, um. I was using a lot of free resources, so I used Free CODEcamp first, which is an amazing, amazing resource. That was like my first introduction into, um, programming and obviously I kept at it. So that's a testimonial in itself. And then a lot of, um, YouTube channels as well.

Um, free CODEcamp had their own YouTube, so I'd recommend that. 

Mm-hmm. 

And then, um, after a while I was like, okay, cool. I wanna like invest in my education. So I bought some Udemy courses. Okay. To learn. These are like in JavaScript and React, and they were a bit more, um. Just intense, which I needed at the time.

Mm-hmm. 

And then with learning how to code, sometimes it can get quite lonely. Mm-hmm. Because obviously you're stuck in your room, you're on your computer for how many hours, just like typing away. 

Mm-hmm. 

And so that's when I decided to look at communities. Um, and came across Code First Girls. Okay. So this is a nonprofit organization which specifically teaches women how to code because of the gender imbalance in tech.

Mm-hmm. 

And they offer free courses, so I did their. Python course initially, and this was like a four week course where e lump Python, and then we did a group project at the end. Mm-hmm. And that was really fun because obviously I'd never co collaborated with people before when building, um, um, like a project.

So it was normally like my requirements what I wanna build. So it was very different. Um, but I really enjoyed it and I was able to meet like incredible women who were enthusiastic about learning how to code, which kind of propelled me in my journey. Um, and off the back of that. I also did their, um, bootcamp, which was a 16 week very intense course that I did.

I balanced, um, I was working part-time as a pharmacist at the time. Um, so I was balancing that with work, but it was, it was a really good course in the sense that it's tailored for career switches. Mm-hmm. So they, um, assumed that you are working. Mm-hmm. So it would be like four evenings out of the week for two hours, I believe.

And then obviously you have homework and coursework and stuff like that. Um, but they literally just taught us everything. We like Python databases, um, data structures and algorithms. And they, and they think about bootcamps, is that they tailor your learning to like industry demands. Mm-hmm. So. A CS degree might go like really heavy into theory and hardware and stuff like that.

Whereas for a software engineering job, all you need to know is like how to code and then data structures and algorithms and maybe some like, um, architectural design knowledge. So they kind of, um, make learning efficient, like, you know, what you need to learn in order to get a job. So yeah, I really enjoyed that experience.

It was, it was tough. 

Mm-hmm. 

But it was, it was a great experience. And your second question, if I could go back and do something differently. Yeah. Um, I think I would've found a coding community earlier instead of doing it by myself. Um, I think, I mean, it worked initially for me, but it would've been more fun if I just had.

A community to rely on and to speak to and things like that. So yeah, find community earlier. 

Yeah, I love that. Um, and yeah, we're all about community here. I'm actually gonna talk about a bit more about what we've got in line for our community later on. Um, but we're gonna go on to Treasure Talks, uh, which is our new segment from last season.

Um, we, we, we are exploring, 'cause you may be wondering what's gonna be added this season. Uh, hopefully you'll notice in the video something different. So let us know in the comments. But yes, treasure Talks is a item that is relevant, uh, to you as a person. Now, you've already informed me about this. This is the first time, and I guess this is setting the tone.

So for anyone who's watching, who's either looking to be on in the future, um, or one of our next. Upcoming guests. You got, you gotta beat, beat the, beat the level of standard that's being set today because, uh, we don't have an item per se. We have an email and I'm intrigued. So could I please know a bit more about this email?

Okay. And why is this email significant to you? Okay. 

Um, so I think it sums up who I am, what type of person I am. Mm-hmm. And then it also kind of gives you an idea of my journey, I guess my career transition and how I was able to do it. Um, so the email is, have you heard of Future Me? 

Yes. 

The website. 

Oh, yes, yes, 

yes, yes, yes.

Yeah. Yeah. So this Evo was written in 2022, March 28th. 2022. Okay. Um, and just to set the scene, um. So essentially at this point in time, I was, I think I was in my, yeah, I was in my pharmacy training year at Boots. This is what the email says. Um, I wasn't enjoying it. I really wanted to switch careers. Mm-hmm.

Um, I found pharmacy repetitive, no room for, um, creativity. And, um, in the email I talk about how I started coding. I'm like seven months in, I'm really enjoying it. 

Mm-hmm. 

Um, and then I wrote like things that I hope to do. So I hope to start the code first girls degree. 

Mm-hmm. 

Which I did. 

Mm-hmm. 

Um, I hope to apply to get a job as a software engineer, which I did.

Mm-hmm. 

Um, work for a big tech company. I don't work for a big tech company. I worked for a big investment bank, which I did. Um, and yeah, so I chose this because I think it's so important. Um. For especially me and my character to kind of visualize things before they happen and speak them into existence.

So, um, obviously at this point in time when I was writing this letter, first of all, this email came to me, I think it was like the 1st of January, 2026. Wow. And like I was such a shock when I was reading through it because obviously I'd forgotten about. I was like, oh, and I did this and this happened and this, and there's obviously some like other things in there, which is a bit personal I would speak about.

But, um, just to see everything like kind of the past me build this reality that now living is just incredible. So, um, yeah, that kind of says a bit about me and how I work. And then also, like if you're listening to this podcast, I would recommend you go to Future Me. It's like a website that you can write future emails to yourself.

You can pick a date when you receive, um, the email, but write an email and set the date to. Let's do three years from now. Mm-hmm. And then write your like, ideal day or your ideal situation that you wanna be in three years from now. Um, and hopefully when you do receive that emo in the future, you'll be like, wow, I achieved it.

I've, like, I, I stood by what I wanted, I put in the work and I'm here now. 

Mm-hmm. 

Um, and sometimes we forget how far we've come. So it's always nice to get those reminders, even if it is from your past self, to be like, Hey, thank you for putting in the work for us to like, live out our dreams. 

Mm-hmm. 

So, um, yeah.

That's beautiful. 

That was my, 

that's beautiful. 

No problem. Thank you. 

Yeah, no, thank you. Like I said, I'm glad I'm not a guest this season. I've gotta top that. Um, no, I really like that for many different reasons again, but I think one, one key one is so, uh, it's not coming out this year. Um, I need to remember, is it next year?

It's coming. This next year or the year after? 

2028. 

So 2028. Um, so for our 50th episode. Wow. I'll see if we'll do this for the hundredth one. 'cause like, I'll be honest, man, like the 50th episode I wasn't expecting to have gotten here for, but, um, 

thank God, 

honestly, man, thank God every day for it. But the, the 50th episode, the person who interviewed me, so there will be a.

As I mentioned, a point where, uh, these guys know, passing the mic, I, we swap roles, you get to ask me questions. And, um, I interviewed someone and the person we interviewed for this episode was like, oh, I don't wanna ask you a question. I want you to do something. And I was like, oh, okay. This is this different, and I've never done this before.

Um, and she was like, look, I want you to, uh, look into the camera. Uh, and this was funny 'cause the camera, I hadn't this at the time, camera wasn't working, so I've only got the audio version of this. Oh no. Yeah, the camera was outta sync with the audio and it just looked awful. But the person was still happy with the episode.

Yeah. Um, and she was like, oh, I want you to speak to the camera and record a message for yourself. And basically it was like, future me. So she was just like, I want you to talk to five year version of Jeffrey. Talk about him, talk about what's happening, like what you want, what you're doing, like where life is, what you're celebrating, where you're at, all of this stuff.

And I was like, cool. Oh, cool. Now if you listen back to that 50th episode, you might be like, oh my days, where is this? Jeffrey's not included this, I was instructed, and you'll hear in the recording, I was instructed you cut that out mm-hmm. And release it in five years time. Ooh. So in two years time from now, which is wild to think, 'cause like generally I can't believe that's coming up to, 

mm-hmm.

That's coming up to five years, but in, in two years time. Uh, so in 20, 28, August, uh, you'll see or hear at least, um, what that message was. And I think, like you said, that is something really beautiful about, like, I personally generally don't even remember what I said in there. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But, um, I like it.

I like doing it. And I mentioned it in the episode because it was nice to like. Give yourself that vision to work towards. Yeah. Because I feel like people are just like, oh yeah. Like I think one of the things that I've definitely learned this year, and even though like I say this year is if like, we're not just at the end of month one, but mm-hmm.

When I tell you January's been a month. Yeah. Um, I've really learned the importance of like creating that space to like, you've got a goal and that's great, but like you need to know how you're gonna get there and like have that clear. Mm-hmm. And it's okay to have that vision and it's okay for that vision, like the journey to change to get there, but the journey needs to start with something.

Mm-hmm. Like if I'm going out. And I don't know, I'm go like, I've never been to this address before. 

Yeah. 

I need to either know from Google Maps 

mm-hmm. 

If we wanna keep it old fashioned, I need to have a physical map. 

Hey, 

and I need to like look at it and I need to be like, tell me how to get here. Mm-hmm.

Um, because I feel like if you're just like, like you wouldn't go out, like I wouldn't be like, oh, I want to go to, I. I dunno if I'd never been in London before and I was like, I want to go to, I don't know, Piccadilly Circus, um, I wouldn't be like, cool, I'm just gonna like walk out and like, I might be able to walk out and find stuff.

Maybe I'll ask someone. But then at the end of the day, you're going off of that like someone else's information. Mm-hmm. You're going off someone else's step. Um, so for me it's like, this year has really taught me like, yes, you can have all that knowledge, but you need to have that like, um, you can't have that vision, but you need to also put the steps in to do that vision.

Yeah. Um, and whether that's through systems you put in place, um, there was one someone recommended about like, creating content, which is really useful. I'm hoping to implement. Whether that's, you know, accountability. So like you've got a friend who's like, cool, you are like, I'm expecting. So like, I like people get surprised when I say I don't, I don't think I post enough on LinkedIn.

People are just like, yeah, you're posting loads. But I'm like, for the most part I'm just reposting what, like, pick up the mic is posting. So I wanna post more as an individual, but like, even with my link, like with LinkedIn posts, I've told people like, your accountability can be oh, like. My friend, can you tell me like, if you don't see three LinkedIn posts from me in a week, you need to come and like, come correct me?

Yeah. Yeah. I tell my friends to bully me. If I don't do 

hundred percent say 

I'm 

gonna do that, I'll draw my sister. Like, she, she didn't follow through this. Oh no, but that's, that's, that's fine. I'll, I'll make sure she does next time. But I told one of my sisters, I was like, look, um, 'cause she was like, oh, I'm really struggling to like, make this decision.

I dunno what to do. And I was like, look, okay, I'm gonna make it simple for you. I'm gonna count to five. If you don't, if you don't come up with an answer, you're gonna gimme 20 pounds. 

Wow. You 

are a 

strict 

person. Yeah. I was just like, look, because she was, she was like, come with it. I was like, look, look, we're gonna in a circle.

I was like, you wanna, you're not sure what to do. Like. Like, I'm gonna take money from you. And the more time we do this, the like more. And I, 'cause I was just like, at the end of the day, you know what you want to do. You just, you might not necessarily feel confident enough to say it. You might not feel like you've got the, like, you know, everything and you want to make a more informed, and I'm not saying you should do this with every decision, but I was like, if you've got the information and you're still really struck, stuck and you've prayed about it and you're still not sure, like, well maybe, maybe not do this if you have prayed about it.

But, um, Maya, like I just told her, look, just be like, cool 20 pounds. Every time, every time a person counts, the five they give you are giving another 20 pounds. 

Mm. 

Um, and whether that, like you tell them that 20 pounds that I've now charged you, like you're gonna have to reinvest in a charity. Whether it's you're giving them money directly to me.

Whether it's like, I don't know that friend that you are like, ah, they're so annoying. You have to now buy them something nice and be like, cool, this is for you. That people may say that's a bit harsh. Maybe I shouldn't have said that. But that's a whole, that's between you and your friends. And if you are that friend that's suddenly receiving gifts now, you know why?

Why? Um, but yeah, like whatever it is, like you, sometimes you need that like kick 'cause you need to like make a decision. Yeah. And if you're just like, ah, I dunno, like yes, no, yes, no. Like you sometimes need that. So I think for me, what I really love is that you not only like came up with the future me, but also I think what's funny is you didn't go back or well, at least from what you said, you didn't go back to like read it and be like, oh, I need to stick to this dream or I need to do this.

It was like you had a vision. Mm-hmm. You stuck to that vision. Mm-hmm. And you surprised yourself. Yeah. Because. You did everything without having to like, have it pinned up on a wall. Yeah. Or like written somewhere to see it every day. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah. Thank you very much for that. 

No worries. 

Um, we will go to the next question, but before we do, we will go to first the, um, mic check, interesting fact figure or story related to the conversation and Stack Overflows 2024 developer survey found that 66% of developers have a bachelor's degree or a master's degree.

However, only 49% learn to code at school. And this is interesting because it highlights how common it is for non-traditional learning path to get into coding, um, and development. So. This next question is about breaking into FinTech. 

Mm-hmm. 

So you landed a job as a software engineer at an investment bank in London.

So what do people misunderstand most about working in that environment and which pharmacy skills unexpectedly became your advantage in this role? 

Mm, good question. Um, so I'm not sure if I watched too much tv, but before I entered like the investment banking industry, I thought it was like cutthroat. I thought there'd be like people shouting on the, on the desk.

I thought it'd be like fast pace, fast pace, um, like no grace, do the work, put your head down, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now don't get me wrong, we have to work hard, but it's not cutthroat like you see in the movies. And when I went down I was like, oh my gosh, these people are actually really nice and they're really friendly and they're really helpful and stuff like that.

Um, so yeah, that was a misconception that I had before that has now been debunked. Thank God. Um, and what was the other question? Oh, pharmacy skills. Yeah. Which skills that came in helped me with, um, software engineering. 

Mm-hmm. 

There's been so many, you know, I think it's such, uh, a transferable, um, like skillset.

So first of all is, um, questions. So as a pharmacist, when you are di say you come into my pharmacy mm-hmm. And you say, I have a rash. Um, my role as a pharmacist is to explore that rash. And so I have to like, follow a framework to gather information so that I can recommend a solution. 

Yeah. 

So in pharmacy we use wham.

Okay. It's been a long time since I've been a pharmacist. Can't remember what that means. It's like who, who are you, your, like, um, your medical history? Yeah. Your age and stuff like that. Um, what, so what is it? It's a rash. What does it look like? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Um, action. Have you taken any actions?

Have you used any creams? Mm-hmm. Have, how have they worked? Have you taken any pills and stuff like that? Um, and medical history. So you might be like, you might have started a new pill that has caused this rash, blah, blah, blah, blah. Mm-hmm. So I'll take, I'll go through those questions with you and then that will help me problem solve and come to a solution, and then I can recommend a me medicine to you.

Mm-hmm. And that's very similar to software engineering. So the business will come to us with a requirement. For example, a trader wants a feature on their dashboard where they can submit, um, feedback. And so I'll be like, okay, so what format do you want this feedback box to be? What is more efficient? What works with your workflow?

Where do you put your mouse? Blah, blah, blah, blah. Um, and it, again, it's um. I guess requirement gathering, but just in a different way. Yeah, asking the right questions, um, efficiently to get the answers you need to create a solution. And again, it's very solution based. So in pharmacy, I'm finding a me medicine in software engineering, I'm finding like the best feature to suit this need.

Um, so there's a lot of parallels and there's also, um, communication as well. 'cause in pharmacy there's a, a lot of like technical medical terms. So if I'm talking about like hypertension or like, um, I dunno, anti-malarial, um, structure, blah, blah, blah, blah. Um, when I'm communicating that to a patient, I have to like use words that they understand.

So like, um, your blood pressure is high, it's over this, we need to reduce it, um, by this much, instead of using all that technical jargon. And the same as, um. Software engineering, there's very like technical concepts, whether we're talking about architecture or, um, I dunno, um, APIs or microservices and stuff like that.

All this jargon. Whereas I would just say to the business, okay. Um, we use certain architecture, but this is gonna help your, um, application stay up and not like fall over when there's too much traffic. Yeah. So being able to like, know those very technical, deep, um, phrases, but then when you're talking to.

The appropriate audience to kind of like, um, translate it in a way that they can understand and digest. Yeah. Um, so yeah, there's lot, lots of parallels. As I say, pharmacy is a great, like study pharmacy is a great like thing to, to have and it gives you so many skill sets that are transferable. Yeah. 

And I think that's really nice.

'cause like you said, like sometimes people are just like these two industries don't. Mm-hmm. Actually like there's no skills that you could take from one to another. 

Yeah. 

But like you said, even like the way that you are like thinking and tackling solutions. Um, and also I've also told people that's an advantage.

So because you are not doing it as someone who may be studied, like software engineering as a degree, you can come at that at a different approach. Mm-hmm. So the way that you are problem solving, you may be problem solving as a pharmacist would rather than a software engineer. Mm-hmm. But that's not a disadvantage.

That's actually great because you might see something that someone's like. Well, actually we've been doing this wrong this entire time. Mm-hmm. Like, why aren't we asking these type of questions? Yeah. Um, why aren't we following through with this? Um, but that's an advantage that people may feel like is a disadvantage, so.

Mm-hmm. 

Yeah, and I think it's key for tech, because tech is always moving, they always require innovation. Mm-hmm. So if they can get people who can look at the problem from a different angle, that will help them with that kind of innovation. 

A hundred percent. Um, but we've now come to the very last question before, uh, we swap roles.

Mm-hmm. 

And you get to ask me as many questions as you'd like. Yeah. Wait. Um, but this is looking at sustainable growth and confidence. So now that you're in the industry and you're sharing insights, you know, through your writing, uh, I didn't mention this on the podcast, you've got a blog. Mm-hmm. Uh, please do tell us more about that as well.

Um, what mindset, what mindset shift helped you most deal with imposter syndrome and not having a traditional background? Hmm. 

Okay. Good question. Um, so to be honest, I think I still. Still with imposter syndrome. Um, like because of where I work, I'm just surrounded by like incredibly talented, um, people, um, who know like everything it seems like.

Um, but I think what has helped me kind of get over it or start to get over it is, um, first of all, seeing senior developers be very humble when they don't know something. 

Mm-hmm. 

And um, we have a culture of, we call it paired programming. So if someone is like dealing with a bug, they'll say to another developer, Hey, can we sit together and go through this problem?

Mm-hmm. 

So I think that culture has helped. 'cause I know that no matter how senior I get, I have a culture to support me when I don't know something. And also the fact that other senior developers are still using this method to kind of debug and um. Solve some issues. I know that it's just part of the job.

Mm-hmm. 

Um, and what was the other part of the question? Sorry. 

You know what? See, look, this is, this is, this is how, you know, like recording at the end of a work day. Because when you ask me that, I was like, what is that the part question that I was talking about? Um, so it was what mindset shift helped?

Helped. So how did it help you deal with imposter syndrome, but also not having a traditional background? 

Oh, not having a traditional background. Do you know what? Honestly, so my manager, she comes from a maths background, so she's just like me. She didn't study computer science. 

Mm-hmm. 

But her brain is incredible.

Like the technical knowledge she's been able to adopt. Mm-hmm. Her, I guess visibility over projects and, um, technical concepts and the business and stuff like that is immaculate. Mm-hmm. So I think having someone. And I guess this is quite a unique experience mm-hmm. Because a lot of people, um, their managers will be someone who comes from a computer science background, but to have like such a great role model who doesn't have a computer science background but is so amazing at, um, what they do has just been inspirational and has made me be like, okay, no, I can get the tea regardless of, um, what I studied or what I didn't study.

Um, so yeah, I think she's just been a great 

model. That's really cool. 

Yeah. 

Perfect. Um, well, yeah, well this is where we swap roles. So, um, I, uh, well I'll close the, the, the tablet. Uh, and do you get to ask me, uh, really all the questions that you have prepared? 

This is Good Friday. 

Um, so yeah, lemme know what the first question is.

This is passing the mic. I co believe you've got to introduce this, but this is passing the mic. Um, so yeah, lemme know what questions you've got. 

Okay. My first question, lemme know if anyone has asked you this before. I hope not. Okay. Right. The first question is, 

yes, 

dinner with Jay-Z or a million pounds.

See, um, I haven't been asked this before. Yes. Um, and, but I've seen this conversation before. So this leads to a wider conversation that I've heard. Like, I know you spoke about Trevor Nu before recording, but like on his podcast, he either on his podcast or like in something he did, he was talking about.

What's more? It was actually, yeah, it was on his podcast. He was talking about what's better for you as an individual? Is it better to have unlimited money or unlimited access? And I think ultimately that's what this question with like Jay-Z, um, or getting like money is about Mm. Because it's like, do 'cause, like essentially having dinner with Jay-Z I get what people say.

People be like, you could have dinner with Jay-Z. Jay-Z could end up hating you. Nothing's happened, but then. You could make a whole like, marketing campaign mm-hmm. And spin stuff around. Like, even if you didn't enjoy the, like obviously the, the hope is that he enjoys it. You work together, all that fun stuff.

The alternative is also true. If he hates a dinner, that's a whole marketing thing because then you can be like, look, I had a dinner with Jay-Z and it was awful and this, it, this and that. Yeah. So it's like, do you want unlimited access or like, I guess potential opportunities of fame or do you want instant money into your bank account?

Mm-hmm. 

Now the, the logical part of my brain is like, get the money one, no, sorry, is get the dinner one. 'cause you know, I'm not going anywhere cheap. If I'm getting, if I'm going Casey Yeah. Love, I 

thought it would be free 

I dinner with free. Mm-hmm. And will most likely be in a restaurant that I've ever, I've either never heard of.

I've only seen it outside of, um, and I know I'm not fronting the bill, so I don't, you 

probably can't pronounce 

the restaurant. You can't pronounce name mad. Mm-hmm. You know what, he may even fly me out to the place. Who knows? Um, which I wouldn't complain to you. Um, but then also my, the reason why I was just like the dinner as well.

'cause some people will be like, what this guy just said the dinner. He's not talking about thinking about the money. Wouldn't the money be better? Um, tax. Uh, Ooh. See, that's what you've, now you're 

thinking, 

now you talking about, you're thinking because that money comes in unless you are, unless you're going somewhere, you're putting in an account where you don't pay tax on.

Yeah. An offshore account. An offshore accounts like you are, you're paying tax on this money that's coming into you, your account. Um. And unless you're prepared to get an accountant fix, fix up, get all of this money sorted. Um, 'cause that's also what I've told people. 'cause people have been like, oh, like if a million pounds like dropped in your business, like, you know, how would you feel?

And I was just like, yeah, it'd be great. But there's also a part of me that's just like, am I ready to deal with like all the responsibility that's gonna come with, because you are then need to like one figure, like fix up on your accounting. Yeah. Which means you're most likely have to hire an accountant.

Mm-hmm. Outside of hiring accountant, you need to make sure that like they've got access to everything you need. If you've got a million pounds, you're now spending it, you're going to like, especially if it's like an investment, then you need to make sure there's a return on investment, which means you might need to bring on a team, which means more money.

So I'm like, even if I got the like a million, which are probably people in my family would be like, why is this guy saying you go for the dinner? Um, I'm like, there's so much. And like, I personally, well I mean I've been doing this for like five years, so, and people are still watching, so I'm assuming people aren't.

Sick of this, but like, I feel like I would have an interesting time with Jay-Z. He may also, it may not just be with him. He may bring people he knows. He might bring like, I don't know, Beyonce. He might bring Beyonce. That might be, that would be chill. Love that. Yeah. Um, who knows? I get free Cowboy Carter tickets.

Um, but yeah, I was just like, I just feel like, and I, it is interesting 'cause Trevor, like Trevor Noah said the same thing, that he feels that like unlimited access is really like a beautiful thing. Mm. Because like unlimited, like even like if you had a lot of money or even unlimited money, money's like, I know what people say.

Money gets you in the door, it can do anything. But I think he was saying unlimited access means so that like I, let's say that dinner goes really well. Tracy's like, I love what you're doing, Jeffrey. Love. Pick up the mic. Mm. He might be like, here's my number. If you need anything to pick up the mic, call me and let's do this.

Now, money can do that, but money usually you have to put a lot of money down for someone to be like, mm-hmm I will do whatever. Like, you are back and Cool. Yeah. I work part-time. Like I, but me personally, even if I, if they were paying me like, well, maybe not half a million, if they were paying me, uh, 50, sorry, 500,000 a year, maybe I would have to step up.

But like, I was like, if it, you know, like the drop a drop would need to pay me a lot for me to be like, oh yeah, like I'm on holiday. I now have to work on this. Or, oh, you know, so and so's called me. They really need help with X. Like, let's do this because like if it is, pick up the mic wise. Yeah, I'll support people where I can and stuff like that.

But I'm also like, if a client, like if, if a client's calling me up and it's just like, oh, I need X, like I need this by today. And I'm like, actually this wasn't what we agreed. Like that's cool. I just feel like having Jay-Z on and his connections essentially on, on a phone. Is gonna benefit you more longer term than getting the money 

million pounds.

Uh, and then the final way I end this question is, you need to think about it like this. If you've got the money, what do, like, like I said, aside from just tax. Like what are you gonna do with it? And I feel like you can have a conversation with Jay-Z and learn about how do you, like what do you do with your first million?

Mm. And that could be, even if it's just a dinner, like I know I've spoken a lot about like building up a connection with whatever, but you can have one long dinner with Jay-Z and you learn about how to not only make your first million, but how to keep it and then make 2 million. 

Yeah. 

Whereas if I get a million people may be like, I could pay someone that, I could pay someone that, but then that's already like part of that million that I've got.

Gone. Mm. So I've already lost a million when I could have a free dinner. I learned from someone how to make millions successfully, and then I learned how to make that million into 2 million. Mm. And then once I can make 2 million, I can make that into 4 million, 4 million, 8 million. Mm-hmm. Next thing you know, you're a millionaire and now you're sorted.

And now all the things you are worried about with your money, you are like, oh, what would I do if I had a million? You don't need to worry about. 'cause now you've got people who that's their job to worry about how you're doing it. Um, so yeah, that would be my thing. I'd say the dinner to me logically just makes the more sense, obviously emotionally, I'm like, if someone gave me a million pounds a day, I would love to like just do that instead.

But yeah, I think the DI think personally the, and maybe it's 'cause like I do hosting and like talking to people. I just feel like the dinner would just be the more, the, the thing that I'd get the most value from. 

So you think you'll kick with Jay-Z? Yeah, 

I think I could. I I think we'd have a great time.

I think it'd be great. Um, we discuss music, we discuss his journey. We discuss like how he's like, essentially. Like now he like does the Super Bowl as well with his business title, all of these things. So I feel like there's a lot you could learn. Um, and I feel like at the end of it, like that's what I mean as well.

Like at the end of it, if the dinner goes well and he's like, cool, let's stay connected, like. I could be like, cool, look like my brother loves the Super Bowl. I could be like, oh, Jay-Z, you know what? My brother's like for the longest time, love to go to the Super Bowl. I'm not even asking him to sit. Like, I don't even know if Jay-Z's gonna be the Super Bowl this year.

But I'm like, I don't, I'm not asking him to get tickets to sit with you, but you know, if you know of anyone who could maybe give us tickets, we go to the game, he might be like, I know, I know more than that. I can get you tickets to the after party. Like, and you'll, and then you'll just be like having a good time.

And then you don't even need, look, you'll have the wildest stories. You'll be like, oh my days. I was kicking it with like, and like I said, at least a bigger conversation. So like I said, I would love to have Trevor. Like either I, I mean, to be fair, I wouldn't even care if I was into, if I got to interview, I mean, I'd love to know more about Trevor Noah, but I'm like, I would love to be interviewed by him.

Mm-hmm. Um, there's a lot of like, I'd love to meet Idris Alba, all these people, and I'm just like, look, I could go kick it with Jay-Z then next thing you know. I'm kicking like he, he's like, oh, I need to introduce you to Trevor, like you do podcasting. Trevor will be a great guy if you're looking to get into presenting and all this stuff.

Then it could be like sick. I'm now kicking it with Trevor. No, I'm lying on his podcast. Mm. And all of this stuff. So for me, I'm like, the dinner's just like the more fuck. Like I just feel like I would enjoy it a lot more than like getting the money. The money instantly. Yeah. Instant success. It's like, great.

But then you need to think about the longer term benefit of what you're gonna do. Yes. I could reinvest the money, the million get 2 million out of it, but I'm like, the only way I'll do that is if I pay someone and I could then just learn from Jay-Z how to make my own million, and then make enough that I can then just get someone, like, I can just automatically just ensure that I'm getting millions in every year.

So. 

Mm-hmm. Hmm. I like that. I like that answer. I would pick dinner with Jay-Z as well. 

Okay. 

Um. On the condition that he brings Beyonce, because I'm a huge Beyonce fan. Um, if he says he's not bringing Beyonce, I'm taking that. You taking That's fair. I'm taking that, that's, yeah. That's fair. So I do. Okay, cool.

Thank you for answering that. That's 

alright. 

Um, the next question is, okay, so this was a trend on social media. 

Mm-hmm. 

And people are saying that they have certain colors associated with their auras. Mm. So if you could, don't think about it too much. Okay. If you were a color based on your aura. Yeah. What you give off, what would it be 

like?

I mean, I mean now I'm just like, the only thing that comes to mind is my, like favorite color. But then I guess arguably, like, you might not be able to see on camera, but like my coat, my glasses case and this jumper like. GR green. Um, so maybe it's gr, I don't know. Water bottle am My water was to first.

Okay. Wow. Um, not intentional at all. Mm-hmm. Um, but I don't know, I'd say probably that like, um, 

like money green or 

I think more like, I don't know, like. I dunno, like people would probably say, I'm looking like I'm being, I'm overanalyzing. But I think my thing would be like, one of the words that I would love, like I love being associated with pick up the mic is like community.

Mm. And I like that. I'm like, people come on, they feel at home, they feel welcome, they feel comfortable, they feel like they can relax. And I guess for me, I'm like, when I go to, like, when I go in nature, like if I sit in a park or I go through like, I don't know, like I'm, I'm chilling in a park one day, I'm like.

It's just like nice to have that break even arguably, like if I don't sit in the park for me sometimes I'm like, oh, you know what, on the way home I might go through like a park just because like, it may take me on a detour. I might get home like maybe 50 minutes later than I wanted to. But I'm like, there's something nice about just like walking through nature.

Yeah. And just like hearing birds, like all of this stuff. So I was just like, so maybe it's that. 'cause I'm like, I like, it makes me feel relaxed, it makes me feel cool. It makes me feel like ready to deal with whatever the day brings. Um, or like to put off whatever the day's brought so I don't bring it home.

Um, so yeah, that would be, that's probably, but like, I dunno, like I've, like, I've literally, like, I'm surrounded by green right now, so I'm like, maybe green is, I 

see. No, it's, yeah, to be fair, it's what, there's no wrong or right answer to that. It's whatever you feel. So if you felt green, green is the right answer.

Okay. So I appreciate, yeah, I would agree with green. You go well with green. Um, okay. Yes. And my last question is, I'm so 

sorry. I also realized people say like, 'cause I'm Nigerian, it's not, it's not because it's in the flag as well. Like, it's, it's unintentionally, but please, sorry. Continue. 

You see that Nigerian flag strong.

So strong even subconsciously saying the flag. My goodness. Um, okay, cool. So what does. Jeffrey's day in the life look like? 

Uh, so it varies like day to day. 'cause I work part-time, so if it's, um, when I'm working part-time, it will be like, I, well like typical thing of like, I wake up at, around like, let's say like between seven to seven 30, get ready for the day, go to work.

Um, I prefer, like, I don't have to go in, so I work like a couple of days in a week. Uh, so I don't work the full week. I prefer doing all my days in the office. I feel like it's, uh, nice. 'cause you are like in like, especially I think also 'cause my role is like people facing, so I support a program, I'm like to be in the space and like to trap to people.

So whether that's, you know, like. I don't know. I like, I'm also waving over the soundboard as if like, this is the people, but like for me it's like, oh, I could send an email to just check in on like how our members are doing. But I could just, like, if I see them in the space, I'm like, oh yeah, cool. I'll just chat to you.

Mm-hmm. Like, I'd just be like, how, how's life? Like how's work? How's like your personal life? Like whatever they wanna talk about. And if they wanna talk, like, sometimes they're like, cool, I want to tell you more. And like, loads of stuff sometimes they're like, yeah man, like business is good, life is good.

Sometimes they're like, look, I don't just don't really wanna talk about anything work related. Fair enough. Yeah. Um, but I just like that, I like, I prefer being in the office. And then, um, I guess there are days like today when I'll finish. Work and then go straight into pick up the mic work. So I'll do a recording sometimes maybe I'll do editing.

Uh, maybe I'm going to a networking event or an event after work. Um, on days when I'm not working, um, which is something I need to work on a bit more is, uh, it will be more like working on pick up the mic in some way, shape, or form. So whether that's, uh, working on our events, I will talk. Yeah. 'cause actually by the time I this comes out, one of them would've ha would, one of them has been announced, so I can announce one of them.

Then we've got another one in the works that I'll keep in private. Ooh. But, um, yeah, we'll work on our events. Um, uh, it might be editing this, so editing the podcast. It may be coming up with like new video content. Um, it may be like clipping content, so using long form content from the podcast into creating short form reels.

So we can then post about, um, it may be researching guests working on our comp, like our newsletters and what's, uh, yeah, what we've got WhatsApp community. I'll share more about that later. Yeah, there's more coming about that. Um, so yeah, I wasn't planning on announcing of that, so now I'm like, I'm not gonna edit this out.

You've found out. Um, but yeah, so essentially all of working on all of this different stuff, um, and like even like this new thing that I was saying about like why we've got these sound boards and the exciting thing coming from that. Like there's a lot of things that we will be talking, like are working in that sense.

Mm-hmm. Um. The thing that I say I need to work on is like, uh, is two things. One, I need to cut off point. 'cause I tend to like, just especially 'cause like I said, I work part-time. Um, so I'll be like, cool. Like I would not this, not today, not tomorrow. 'cause um, I'm out late both days. Mm-hmm. Um, I will sometimes like go, so I might come back from work and I'll be like, okay, cool, I'll just edit, leave the video to edit.

Um, because the software I use will just do it automatically. So I don't need to necessarily actively be working on the edit. I can just let this run passively while I'm like working on my actual work, like my, my day-to-day work. Or maybe like, I might then use it as an opportunity to like, I don't know, go and relax.

Like read a book, listen to a podcast, chat to friends or family. Um. So, yeah, so that's tends to be like what that, um, what happens. But the other thing I need to work on is, uh, which is something funnily enough, I also got from Trevor Noah's podcast. What now, um, was they did a thing. To be fair, I've never been asked this question and I would be interested.

This isn't, again, for someone who's watching, who's gonna be on to be like, I have to ask Jeffrey this. But, um, it's. The question that they were asked is if there was a rule that you had to enforce around the world. So it was something that like everyone would have to do, what would it be? Mm. So Trevor No was just like, his thing was no social media for anyone under the age of 16.

He was just like, he feels like it's bad, it's not really helping people. Um. It's making children like really self-conscious and worried. And he said long term, like for people outside of that age range, like social media is such a difficult space to navigate. Mm-hmm. Um, for the other host that was with them, they were like, uh, she was like, sorry.

Um, what? Oh yeah. Uh, so schools, there shouldn't be like private schools and public schools. It should just be schools. Are, it school's a universal thing. So private schools and public schools get scrapped. School, everyone goes to school. Um, and it's a lottery. So your child may go to like a really great school, your child may go to a really bad school, and their argument was that, um, that should then, that would then get rid of like essentially certain schools being really great because they've got like wealthy parents behind you.

Yeah. Who can fund the school. And some schools suffering because they don't have that. She was just like, if parent, if essentially, if. People dunno where the child's gonna end and they, there's no way to influence this system. Then parents will be like, yeah, cool. We need you just to make sure education as a whole is better for everyone.

Yeah. Um, which I thought was interesting, but with this thing you had to get people to like every, you had to get like, there's only three of them. So you had to get the, your yourself and ideally one other person to agree to your idea. The final person, which is the one that I'm trying to do is, uh, so they were born Jewish and they said that their rule would be that essentially everyone would follow the Sabbath.

If you are not Jewish or Christian, you may not know what Sabbath is, but it's a day of rest in Judaism. I don't think any sex or Christianity do this, but I may be completely wrong and there may be, I may be Orthodox church may do this, but I might also be wrong with that. But essentially it's like from sunrise on, I think Fridays to sunset on sun, on Saturdays it's no work.

Uh, more orthodox, so like more traditional. Um. Jewish people may take that form of like no work to be, I can't even turn the oven on. I can't like do anything like that. 

Can't drive, 

can't drive. Switch 

on 

the life. 

Exactly. So it tends to be that like if they do need anything like that done, they'll sometimes ask their neighbors who aren't observing the Sabbath to do this.

But nowadays people are a bit like some. Um, I've forgot what the Orthodox, what was the other one? I've forgot what the opposite to Orthodox is. But essentially for those, um, for others who don't necessarily, who are still like Jewish, but don't necessarily follow that, they will turn around and instead just be like, actually I can still do that smaller stuff, but like any form of proper work.

So like for example, I guess if, if I was to observe this. Which is again, the plan that I'm trying to do, it would be like, no, pick up the mic work. So no, pick up the mic work and no part-time job work. No. Like doing anything else. You, the whole focus is you're supposed to focus, like for people of, uh, who follow Judaism.

It is just a, and also for Christians who observe it, it's supposed to be a time when you reflect on God, you go back to like, you're literally just like focusing on that time to develop your relationship with God for. Um, people who don't necessarily follow Judaism, but like that practice, it's supposed to be like a reset.

So it's, you are taking the space to separate, like your work from your personal, so you want to create a day where you are not just like focused on your business and doing stuff. So from that, um, the person was just like, so his thing was like, it should be like a universal thing. So he was like, obviously like four roles where you need like constant carers needed to like doctors, um, policemen.

I feel like it used to be like that though. I 

feel 

I, but before they used to like close everything on Sundays. Like even in some countries we still Yeah. Do 

like 

everyone has to ask. Yeah. 

But even like I said, like the, like, you know, if you look at like countries like Spain or Portugal, they have a siesta time.

So like between for like midday and two. Stuff's not open. 

Yeah. I was shocked when I went to Spain and like everyone was sleeping for hour day. It's different. I ain't there. 

But I was honestly like, when I saw that, I was just like, ah. Like why is that not like, yeah, this is definitely something like we could do here.

Like yeah, I 

said I wish that was me. Imagine in the office and yeah. 

Yeah. Look guys, wish your rest time like go home, like have a siesta come back in two hours. Yeah. Like wouldn't that, wouldn't that be the dream? Must 

be very nice. But I feel like you, you are more efficient if you just have rest. I dunno why 

no, a hundred percent 

people can't fat them that.

No, a hundred percent. Um, that's also, that could be a whole con separate conversation itself. Why people also advocate for like the, um, four day working week as well. No wonder that. Um, I also feel like there's an interesting thing that, um, I've seen other organizations do, um, where it's, you have unlimited, so your annual leave isn't limited by like your position or your, um, like how long you've been in the company.

You get unlimited annual leave, but. Um, the argument is that essentially like you, you like that. So I couldn't just be like, tomorrow, call my manager up in the morning and be like, I'm off for like three months. 

Mm-hmm. 

Um, but the argument is rather than like essentially sick days and stuff like that mm-hmm.

Supposed to give people the, like you said, the opportunity to rest. What really interesting is they did, there's loads of studies that have been done on it, um, and they found out that like when they did it, there wasn't so, like one company did it and there was no change between when like giving everyone unlimited annual leave and you can take it whenever.

Compared to when they didn't have that, there was no difference. People said, and 

people were scared. I'd be like, maybe my managers like judging me and she's slacking. Why she takes so many days off. 

But that was really interesting 'cause most people didn't like abuse the system so people would still take the same amount of annually that they were expected to, or like that they used to.

And then they were saying what was interesting is as they continued it, like you then saw people would. Like, basically, like you said, people were better rested. Mm. People were more refreshed. Work, productivity increased. And like you said, it wasn't because like, oh, like, it wasn't necessarily like, they were just like, oh, the workplace is bad and I hate working here.

But it was just like, okay, you do, uh, you know, maybe nine to five, you're doing this five days a week. It gets repetitive, it gets tiring. Mm-hmm. You, you are in a fast paced environment. Things are moving quickly. You're not necessarily getting that time to rest. Yes. You've now got annual leave, but your annual leave, you've only got a certain number of days you can do per year.

Mm-hmm. Every organization tackles annually differently. So I know some, you know, um, you can carry a small number of days. For some of them you can carry over as many days as you want. For some, if you don't want to carry over days, you can get that money, you can get those days back as money. Like it would basically, it erased all of that, but made people feel like more valid, more empowered, more ready to work, but also gave them that space to be like, okay, cool.

Actually, you know what, like. Next week, I just need the next month off. Mm-hmm. Um, but it, yeah, it was really interesting to see and I was just like, why don't more organizations do this? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, I get why, like, if you are, like, depending on where you work, why you might be a bit hesitant. But I guess for me, I was also just like, like, one thing I guess my managers really honed into me, um, is that essentially like I'm, I'm not a doctor.

And what I mean by that is like my work, if I'm like, like I think there were, there were times where like I would like rush in or I'd be like, oh, you know, I'm not feeling a hundred percent, but I should be in 'cause I don't wanna take sick lead or whatever, and this or that and that. And my manager was just like, at the end of the day, like, like, we're not doctors.

Yeah. No one's gonna die. No one's gonna die if, if I don't send this email or if I don't do, like, someone may be a bit disgruntled. Mm-hmm. They may be a bit annoyed, but like, they, like, there's no point in overworking myself. And that's one thing I would say, like, definitely with my like current job that like within my.

Direct team there. Is that real clear like, yeah, like don't work if you're not well. Mm. Like my team manager was just like, if you don't feel a hundred percent, why are you coming into work? Mm. That's 

the buffers. 

Yeah. Like she was just like, look like one, like she was just like, it's not good for you.

You're gonna just rush yourself. You're gonna not feel great. Two, she was just like, it's worth if you come in, you work and then maybe you work two or three days and then you're off for like two weeks to do that. Yeah. 

You just prolong the recovery program. 

Exactly. And then I think the issue now is, so obviously work from home has become more apparent.

It's a more important, like it's more, it's here more than it used to be. And like what's interesting is before if you weren't well, like so example like there when I, like after COVID, when I got my first role, like that's when I started to work, well actually that's a, like when I did my placement year.

COVID hit. So like, I've then technically worked from home, but like before COVID, I'd never worked from home before, ever. Mm. So for me, I was just like, this is interesting because everyone, like, especially like nowadays, like I might be like, um, I feel like my throat's a bit sore or like, I've got a bit of a headache, but like I can work.

Mm-hmm. Um, and I feel like that I, I'm not sure. I feel like, I think that did happen. There was one day I was like working from home and I was just like. Like I just, my head was just hurting during this meeting. And then I spoke to my manager afterwards. She was like, are you okay? I was like, yeah, no. I'm just like, I'm not gonna, like, this meeting was like a lot of overload and like my head's kind of hurting and she was just like, oh no.

Like if you need to log off for the rest of like, she was like, shut your laptop. Like after we like, let's finish this chat. Shut your laptop. And then she was just like, if you need to take a break, like take a break. Like, there's your head, like if you've got a headache, don't power through your 

computer.

Yeah. I feel like studies need to be done because I get that too. I feel like, 'cause I'm working from home, like technically I'm not, it's not as strenuous as being in person. So even if like I have a headache or I'm not feeling a hundred percent, I'm like, I'm working from home. So like I can still just power through it 

a hundred 

percent.

But no, you actually have to take time and rest. 

A hundred percent. So 

that's so interesting. 'cause like if I was going in in person and I had a headache, I'd be like, actually no, I need to rest. So just 'cause I'm working from home, why do I, 

why do you need to? Yeah. So it was really nice. Um, so yeah, so that, that would be my like other thing, um, to add to that as well.

Mm-hmm. Um. But yeah, no, that's basically like my day to day. Like I want to essentially, I guess long term or not even long term, this is definitely something immediate. I wanna have a day, like ideally probably Saturdays, 'cause those are my like most chill days. 

Mm. 

Have that as a day of no work. So I don't do anything for pick up the mic, um, for myself as like a founder, whatever.

Like, it's literally just a day where like. If I want to, like, I don't know, read a book, binge, a TV show, like hang out with friends, family, like game, whatever I want to do. That's what that day's designed for. Mm-hmm. And it's a day where I can just like rest, take it slow, you know, like pray, like run, like reconnect with Lord, not, and maybe not reconnect, but connect with God.

Mm-hmm. Um, but for me, I just, I just feel like I, I'm just like, even if you are like not, and that was what was interesting. The person, um, who suggested the like Sabbath day on Trevor Noah's podcast, he was like, even if, so I don't think he said he was like a practicing, uh, he's not practicing Judaism, but he was saying like, for himself, he was just like, the principles of having that when he was younger just taught him so much.

Mm-hmm. So I was just like, if he's saying this. Then like, clearly let's, let's makes sense. Let's, let's, let's, it just makes sense to make this a thing. Yeah. Um, and like I said, like you can find a way to do it. So like if there are like, you know, key roles like doctors, you know, your like emergency service people.

Um, the military I guess is what I'm not, I guess the military is as well. Like those type of people, you may need to figure out how that would work for them. Mm-hmm. Whether it's, you know, someone's like, employ, this is ridiculous, but like, employed to have another Sabbath day, like during the week when everyone else is working in the same way.

It's not ridiculous. 'cause in the same way you have people who do night shifts and people who do day shifts on the job. It's possible just be the same thing. So it'd just be like, some people work on the, like, have. Regular Sabbath days that everyone else follows. So maybe that's their Saturday, maybe that's their Sunday, and then people have days during the week where that's their Sabbath.

But I feel like that would be, that's something that, like, whether you're a business founder, whether you're creative, whether you're a professional, whatever, I just feel like that's something that like everyone should just have in their day, whether you are even arguably if you're religious or not. Like I do feel like having a day where you're not doing like anything and it's a day that you stick to.

Mm-hmm. So whether that's, you need to like, put a lock on your devices and it's like you, you are blocked from all these devices. Um, even if you have to like be super strict and you get like a friend, family member or friend, or if you've got someone on your team to like reset all your passwords, so then you can't even log in.

Like, to me, I'm just like, have that. 24 hours where you're just like, I can't work on this thing. 

Mm. 

Um, and even like my final things to say about this would be if you are, especially if you're a business, like people may say it's hard if you are doing this as an employee. Um, but I'd say if you're a business founder and you're especially starting like a small business, I would just say like, have that in your email signature on if someone's emailing.

Like if you, if you want to follow it in like, traditional Judaism, so like Sun Sunset on Friday to Sunset on Sun, um, sunset on Friday to Sunset on Saturday. Just have it that as soon as like Sunset is, or even if you're just like, you can't do it based on sunset. 'cause that changes throughout the year.

Like you could just be like 5:00 PM on Friday to 5:00 PM on Saturday, send out a, uh, a thing and it's just like, Hey, thanks for getting in touch with me. Like this is my, like, I observed this day of rest. Um, so I unfortunately do not, I won't even say, unfortunately, I do not review my emails. Between for the next 24 hours.

Mm-hmm. If it's super urgent and it's pressing, like, get in touch with me and if you don't have my phone number, unfortunately, like this is gonna have to wait. Um, and that very finely leads to, um, like there's this quote, uh, that I think Tom Holland quoted on a podcast he was on, and it was like, if you need me, call me.

If you don't have my phone number, then you're not close. Like basically you're not close enough to need me. That desperate. Ooh, 

ouch. 

Um, and I was like, that's a fair point because sometimes you're entertaining things or like emails and stuff that could wait for a day or two. Um, but I was like, he's actually got a fair point.

So that would be my other thing. Like, yes, obviously you wanna make a sale, everyone wants to make a profit or everyone wants to grow their business, but like, if you do wanna have this day of rest, just put it in your email signature. I know. Um, there's a guy, um, that I work with and he says this exact same thing, so he's like, oh, I don't really read my emails, so if you desperately need me, like, send me, like, gimme a call or text me.

And he was just like, if this email can wait, I will get back to this email. But I'm like out here trying to make money for my business. 

Mm. 

So 

fair enough. 

This is, this is where I'm at, 

period. 

So yeah, that 

would be, I'm gonna hold you accountable to that one Saturday I'm gonna email you, make sure I don't receive anything back.

You know, 

it's, 

it's, it's, I mean this, that's why I'm saying like, January's been interesting 'cause like I've been. I was ill last week. 

Oh. 

Uh, and then the start of the year I was off, well, no, yeah, I was off work and then my brother, um, was in the, like, he works abroad, so he was back. So I was also just like, I don't want to do any like podcast recording anything.

Bali was here. I just wanna spend time with him. Um, so for me it's been funny because like, I guess inadvertently I've kind of observed that, or even if it's been like, um, I dunno, my family's turned around and been like, oh, Jeffrey, like, we need you to like go out with us to do X or do Y. So I wouldn't.

Actually, no, to be fair, like last weekend is a lie. I did go out on Saturday. I went to a, but to be fair, that was a conference that I already got free tickets to. So I was like, I can't not do it. Does this 

work? 

No. To be fair, not really. Okay. So it was through, um, it was through an accelerator program. I was on, uh, uh, shout out 2020 levels.

Um, but they were just, it was like a young person's conference and they were just like, look, it talks about career development, entrepreneurship, like getting, if you wanna come along, we've got free tickets and apply. So I did. I got it and I like went. But to me, I wouldn't even say that was like work.

'cause I didn't like work the event I wasn't speaking, I was literally just attending as a guest. So for me, I was just like, oh yeah, I'm just gonna see how it goes. Like if I feel like, you know, there's good connections to be made, I'll connect with people. If I feel like I just wanna come here to like, make content, I'll make content.

If I feel like, actually, you know what? I just wanna connect with. Like people and like maybe I'll follow up, like not even, maybe I'll follow up with them. I've also told people like, if you, you don't have to get the contact details, like LinkedIn, Instagram, whatever of everyone that you connect with.

Because I feel like everyone's just like, oh yeah, as, as long as I go to a networking event, I need to connect and do all these dms and stuff. I'm like, no, you don't like, see how it goes. Like you might also be like, this person's great, but 

have you done a, um, episode on LinkedIn etiquette? 

Ah, so we did a episode with someone who spoke about LinkedIn, but I, we haven't done one specifically on LinkedIn etiquette, but I've got a lot to talk about.

Yeah. 

LinkedIn. Um, you 

should plan it. 

We, we can, we can, we could, we can work on. Mm-hmm. I've got ideas on how that could go. Um, but yeah, no, I would say like for those, that's my day to day, but also like the things I would advise for someone who wants to have a more structured day to day. 

Mm-hmm. Thank you for that last question.

'cause I'm, I need to, um, know this who, what policy one. 

What do you mean with 

pause in the podcast? 

Oh, on the thing, oh yeah, sorry, sorry. Um, it was the Sabbath one. Okay. The Sabbath was rest because they were just like, because I don't remember, I, I don't remember who. So the argument for the others two was the school one.

People were just like, unfortunately the world we exist in, there's no way you could guarantee that. Like corruption wouldn't happen. 

Yeah, that's 

right. And they were just like it. 

They pay them off if 

Exactly. 

Especially if it's Nigeria, they'll 

pay them off. 

It doesn't work, 

honestly. And they were just like, it wouldn't make, like, it just wouldn't work.

Yeah. 

And then I think for Trevor Noah's one, I don't remember why they said social media for like, I think they were just like, how would at least the enforce, I think they were just like a mix between how you would enforce it. Yeah. Because. Like, are you gonna basically say that the apps have to like, I guess, which is what people don't want, which is currently happening of like, you know, for certain, uh, apps, you need to do the digital verification.

Mm. And people are just like, who's managing this data? Yeah. And they were just like, that wouldn't necessarily work. Then they were talking about like, oh, um, if you are then making it that like, I don't know, it's based on like other stuff that someone has to do. So maybe it's like, oh, you need to, I don't know, do a facial scan or other stuff.

Again, you're still dealing with data and that's difficult. Mm-hmm. So I think they were just like, how do you. Really ensure that a third, like anyone under 16, wouldn't get access to it. Mm. And then I think they were saying the argument that it doesn't work as well is there are good examples of when social media has worked for people under the ages of 16 or even full 16 year olds.

So where they were just like, whether it's like finding new networks, whether it's connecting with other people, even if it's like finding events or programs or work experience or something. Yeah. Experience and stuff like that. So they were just like, there's a lot of, like social media Yes. Can be bad, but there's also a lot of good cases for it.

So they were just like, it doesn't make sense. Yeah. So the reason why I've forgotten. Who, so the person who proposed that voted for himself. And then the other was, the other was just like, actually I agree with you that yours makes sense. Yeah. But I think they were just like, so I think, I feel like Trevor was the one, Trevor Noah was the person that didn't agree with it.

'cause he was saying, I just don't see how you could enfor, like how you could enforce a Sabbath. Um, 'cause he was like, oh, you're gonna do it like COVID so that the, there's like a COVID, like, you know, in COVID, like the police were making sure people were staying in their houses. Would you then have it, that people would, you know, people would check in to make people assure they're observing the Sabbath.

Um, but then I think he was saying as well, like the, like I was saying about like, um, emergency services, like how would that operate? Yeah. Because they would need their Sabbath. But then like I proposed the guy was, uh, just like, you know, we could have on another day. Mm-hmm. So. I feel, so it won. I also agree that of the three, I think the Sabbath is the one that really most people would probably like.

It's the, I personally think it is the easiest one to do, and I think it's the one that most people would really want. Everyone's tired and burnt out. Yeah. 

Mm-hmm. 

Giving people a day where like they can't work. Um, 'cause I think even he was saying like, even if you just like, which probably is not great and people wouldn't like, but like usually if you have to shut the internet down for like a day, like, yes, you look Instagram don't 

make them 

friends.

Like Instagram went down and people were just like, didn't know what to do with themselves. Um, but yeah, it was like the same thing. He was just like, even if it's something like that, all you say, like, hey, like, um, like I wouldn't necessarily recommend this, but like he was just like, oh, you know, like, uh, like I'd obviously like to like health and safety wise, it's not safe.

But like, he was just like, even if powers like, turned off in the house, 'cause I think he was saying for some houses, um, shrink. Yeah. For some houses in like, um, like for some Jewish houses is, um. They'll basically like, not use, they'll just use candles. Like they'll do that 24 hours. 

Yeah. Yeah. 

During the night it's like candles or it's like lamp, uh, like lamps or lanterns, but it's not like electricity that's being used, 

but then it, it feels like a prison.

Like, why you turning off my lamp, taking my internet? I'm like, it's like a nice, 

like, you know, 

like No, it's, that sounds a, I think it should be optional. 

No, I, I, I agree. I agree that it may, it may not work for everyone, but I think the reason why I like it is 'cause it's like, I feel like, especially 'cause like.

My business. Like I think if I didn't do a tech, like a tech based business, but like, I guess I'm like, I'm front of a screen for my business. I'm in front of a screen for work. If I want a game, I'm in front of a screen. If I wanna call people, I'm in front of a screen. Yeah. So for me it's like, yeah, it's great having all this tech and stuff, but it also then means that like simple stuff you don't necessarily get, and I'm like, sometimes you just wanna like not, like not do anything with your tech.

Like you just want to, so like you wanna 

touch cross, 

you wanna touch cross. Like, I'm like, for me on holiday, people are just like, like you running out exploring the city and doing all these things. And I'm like, yeah, some days I'm doing that. Some days I'm just like, I'm gonna sit, sit in my hotel balcony.

Mm-hmm. Read a book, look like, you know, look over like a nice view, take it slow, walk on a beach. Like, and not even like, I might go to the beach, I might take a, like a photo or two, but then it's like phones gets packed away. I'm reading a book, maybe I'm talking to someone at the beach and I'm just like, that's like nice.

That's like what it should be. But I feel like this is me saying like I'm anti-tech. 'cause obviously like. This is all being recorded through tech. Um, but yeah, that would be my opinion. I just feel like that's just, 

have you seen those TikTok videos where people sit there for an hour without doing anything?

Yeah. 

To like help their dopamine addiction? I'm gonna try that. 

You're gonna try it. You need 

to, lemme know how this goes. 

I, 

I'll email you on Saturday. 

I feel, I feel like you could do it. I feel like you could do it. 

Thank you. Have a faith for me. I don't think I can probably last 10 minutes, but we'll see.

But yeah. Um, do you have any more questions? 

No, that was 

good. Thank you for answering them. Thank you very much. All questions I've not been asked. Like I said, you're set in the bar high for this season. That's right. Good luck to all of you that come after. Uh, but yeah, we're gonna go into the mc of the month, which an organizational individual relevant to the conversation that we're having today.

And for today's guest, uh, sorry for today's mc of the month, they are code bar. So it's a community helping people from underrepresented groups learn programming through free workshops in a supportive environment. And we think, you know, not only is this great for career ERs who want to experience, you know.

Essentially need structure and learning how to use new tools and new resources, but it also gives you a community that you can get involved with. So whether you are someone who is joining, like, you know, you've never done coding or programming before, or whether you're someone that's like done it, but you don't have a community to surround yourself with, they're a great place for you to be a part of, tap into and enjoy.

Um, so yeah, there are mc of the month. Um. But yeah, we've now come to the very end of the episode. Uh, so no, not the very end, the second last part of the episode, uh, which is the takeaway segment, um, which is a message for others to go home with. So Ruth, this is where I hand over to you again, and we've talked about a lot.

We've almost talked for an hour and a half, which is wild, but we've almost spoke for an hour and a half. How, like what is your one message that you would like our audience to go home with? So if it was like, this is the only thing that they were to remember from today, this is what you want them to remember.

Hmm. Um, it's never too late to pivot if you don't like where you are, what you are doing. Um, as long as you're not dead, there's still time for you to change. Um, so yeah, I never think that you are stuff. 

Welcome. I love that. Love. 

Sweet. 

Yeah, sure. Sweet. Like, um, there's nothing else for me to say. 

Oh yeah.

Also. Um, follow my blog, www dofu tech.com. 

Yes. Um, you beat me too, so I was literally about to serve. Oh, sorry, 

I have a step straight. 

No, no, no. Uh, this is your opportunity to, to, you know, shout out about yourself. Um, if you, how can people connect with you? How can I find out more information? But also if you've got anything cool coming out in the works, uh, this episode probably will come out mid Feb, so if there's anything February or March, you want people to be aware, there's stuff I need to save from.

Pick up the mic, but this is your opportunity to share what you're doing first. 

Yes. Um, so you can find me on TikTok Instagram at at roof full tech, and then obviously my blog, which I just said, www.rooftech.com. Um, I basically share insights and resources for people who want to, um, either pivot into tech or career switch, um, and then also just talk about like mindset and other things of that nature.

Mm-hmm. Um. Coming up. So I wanna be more practical in kind of like coaching people to career pivot. 'cause I get a lot of, um, questions and demand, um, to actually assist people. So I'll be starting, um, some mentorship and also some digital products to actually give people practical tips on how they can career switch.

So watch out for that. 

Okay, cool. You know, one thing before I end that I didn't ask you about, which I am actually interested in knowing, um, your creative design studios mm-hmm. Graphic design. What one, let's know a bit more about that very quickly. Mm-hmm. But also, um, is this still up? Is this something that people should tap into?

Is this something you've put on pools? What's, what's, what's happening there? 

Yeah, so I put it on pauses. So basically, um, I was, this, this was okay. I don't wanna take too much time. During the pandemic, everyone was starting businesses. Yes. Do you remember that? Everyone was at home. Everyone was like, mm, a lot of people do like either lip gloss or, um, they making resin stuff or just like, just small businesses.

And I was like, I wanna. Start a business. I was like, let me be smart about this. If other people are starting businesses, I wanna bring them all together. What's something that all of these businesses need? And I was like, they need a logo. Mm-hmm. They need like social media branding content. Mm-hmm. That's cohesive and so on and so forth.

They need graphics. So I decided to, um, like open this graphic design business. It was called Roof Geographics. Um, I taught myself Adobe Illustrator, Adobe Photoshop. Wow. I would make these like logos and graphics. It was so much fun. Like, I think so I'm like a creative person. I like bringing something from nothing.

Like that's what I thrive on. Um, so yeah, I just enjoyed working with these, like small businesses and growing their company. Um, coming up with their brand identity. Mm-hmm. It was so much fun. But obviously when I started coding I was like, oh my gosh, I love coding. And then that kind of like drew me away from, um, roof jar graphics and I forgot what I was actually learning to code for.

Yeah. Um. But that is like, that's my, that's something I love. I love branding, I love marketing. I feel like I do that with my Ruel tech brands. I do it on a smaller scale for myself. So like I do social media content videos and like have logos and my blog and stuff like that. So I do it, do it for myself, which is in some ways more fun because when you're working with clients, no shade, like if they want a logo and I've made this beautiful logo and like they're like, oh, I just need it more Giza and more like blah, blah, blah, blah.

It's like I'm limited in what I can do creatively. Um, but when it's my own thing, I can just, like, the world is my oyster. I can go out and do what I want. Um, but yeah. So. Roof show graphics has come to an end, unfortunately. Um, but better things are on the horizon. Horizon. 

That's lovely. Um, well you've heard it here.

Check out all of those wonderful links, uh, and can make sure you connect with Ruth. Um, but yeah, we're gonna wrap up the episode there. Uh, as usual, if you like this episode, like comment subscribers, always appreciated. If you wanna make sure you don't miss any more episodes of the Student guide or any of the other content on the pickup, the mic, YouTube channel, then please do make sure you click the notification bell at the bottom of the video.

If you are interested in receiving call merch discount on our events. 'cause we will be hosting more events this year, which I'll go into a bit later. Uh, then please do make sure that you are subscribed either to our Patron page or you could be a YouTube channel member, or you could subscribe to buy me a Coffee.

So for the price of One Cup. Of a coffee on any of those platforms. You could subscribe, uh, give some money back to pick up the mic, but also, as I mentioned, you get cool, nice perks. Uh, we've actually got new merch coming in, which, uh, to celebrate this year 'cause we have five years. And I'll talk more about that again later on in just a bit.

Uh, and then finally, if you want to make sure that you don't miss of our other content, as I mentioned, we have, as I always mentioned, sorry, we have three other YouTube channels. So if you wanna make sure you are in, if you're interested in anime, you wanna make sure you don't miss any anime content. Check out senses of anime.

If you're interested in gaming and you don't wanna miss gaming content, check out, pick up the controller and if you're interested in Han Fantasy, check out the two Macs. Uh, there will be some more video dropping from them this year, so check out that. And then outside of that, the last couple of things I'm gonna quickly just whistle stop through, uh, which we'll also be posting a separate video.

So if you haven't stuck around till the end. Then you'll see this posted on LinkedIn over the next, uh, few weeks of recording this. Uh, but we have two big things to announce. So first is, uh, as always, we host a women's history networking event slash live panel. Uh, we have a lot of, well, we've got a, a full panel of five incredible speakers.

We have a keynote speaker that is in the work, so we will keep that quiet for now. Um, so keep an eye on the space we'll be in, uh, day will be there announcing themselves soon. Uh, but we have a networking event to celebrate, uh, women's history in March. So that will be Friday the 20th of March from six till 10.

Uh, it's at Canvas event space, the Burney house, uh, warehouse. So, uh, we'll include the link in the description. So if you're interested and you wanna come along, please do make sure you sign up. Uh, you don't only. Get refreshments, like free food. Um, you also get a free headshot too. So if you're looking to update that LinkedIn photo, uh, 'cause you know you've graduated for a couple of years, but you've kept that graduation photo on there for a bit too long than you were expecting.

Uh, then come and expect a new, new headshot. Um, but also we have amazing set, uh, panelists all across different industries such as journalism, stem, um, uh, fashion, particularly sustainable fashion, um, and also like Web3 design and also, um, like, like blockchain and stuff like that. All stuff that I don't know.

Enough information of Tech. Tech thank you. Language, thank you. Tech language that, I dunno, but maybe you do and you're interested in learning more. Uh, but yeah, this is open to anyone's, whether you are a student creative, um, whether you are a business owner, there will be an incredible panel, but also outside of the panel, uh, we have two or three.

I don't remember off the top of my head. I ended up booking a lot of facilitators, but we've got loads of facilitators. I think it's two, uh, doing incredible work games and workshops to connect with you and help you to connect with the audience. So, uh, like I mentioned, 20th of March, six to 10. Burnsy Warehouse in Old Street.

So Canvas event Space Link is in the event. Invite Link is in the description. Make sure you subscribe. Uh, click register, come along. Um. If you're coming, make sure your friend comes too, uh, because maybe they need a new headshot. And your enemies. And your enemies as well. Maybe they need a new headshot.

Mm-hmm. Um, but bring them along. Um, second thing that we'll be doing, um, I won't announce more information. Well, I'll announce it, but I won't go into too much detail as we're confirming the details. As a recording. We will be doing our five year celebration of pick up the mic in April because uh, we are, yes.

The business is five. Well, the whole pick up the mic is, uh, everything has been since the idea stage, celebrating five years in April, uh, oh, sorry. In March. But we'll be doing our big celebration in April. Uh, more details about that coming soon to keep an eye on the space. And then very finally, you as I mentioned at the start, um, 'cause I can't end the episode without talking about it, as you see in the last episode and in this episode, you've got some new cool microphones.

We've now got soundboard, which again, I will press the applause. Um, and essentially this is because, uh, we are partnering up with an incredible organization called does because we will now be delivering a new media service. So. You may have used, you may have heard of our old media service, which is still there.

So if you just are looking for photography videography, that's perfectly fine. But as someone who hosts events, I know all the time that you're looking for like PA equipment or you're looking for sound equipment to really like upscale your event. You know, maybe you're using a space that doesn't have this stuff, but you really want the audio to be crisp or clear.

Maybe you're even looking to host your own podcast and you're like, oh my gosh, I don't have the, the, the funds to pay for a podcast studio 'cause it's so expensive. It's so, um, yeah, so expensive. Uh, 'cause we know that that can be the case. Well look a no further pick up the mic. It's partnering with does to deliver a new service.

Um, so I will also include the link down below to a form, um, that you can sign up to. Uh, and if you are watching this on LinkedIn or Instagram or wherever the platform I post this, um, I'll include the link in our bio and link in the posts notes and all of that fun stuff. Um, so you can click on it. And let us know what you, uh, let us know what you're looking for.

Let us what you know, what you need. We'll let you know the price. Um, but we are ensuring that essentially your events are always being captured in the most impactful, incredible way. So whether you wanna launch a podcast, whether you want, um, to simply just hire out a PA system for an event because you've got an event space, but they don't have any av, which is very common sometimes.

Um, we've got the equipment to support you. So this is funnily enough, our opportunity to let you pick up the mic. So make sure that you don't miss out on this audio service, um, as well as our current media service to, uh, check them both out. Uh, and yeah, that's basically it. So we're gonna close this chapter of the student guide.

Uh, thank you for everyone who's stayed until the very end. Um, we hope you enjoyed it and we'll see you all in the next episode when we discuss a new topic with a new guest speaker. Uh, and we explore another chapter of this. This new edition. As I say, each season is a new edition of the student ad and we'll be exploring a lot of cool stuff this season.

So bye bye from Usia. Have a wonderful day, and we'll speak to you soon.