Trust Opens Doors Faster Than Anything Else

In this episode of The Student Guide, Ebun, a multihyphenate creative in the creator and marketing industry, shares how building trust and connecting with people opened doors in her non-linear career. She explains why she starts conversations by asking strangers what they’re passionate about, recounts a secondary-school drama moment that revealed her strength in emotional connection through speaking, and discusses unlearning beliefs that creativity isn’t valuable, especially from a Nigerian/African household perspective. She also discusses brand partnerships, heart-led community work, systems to avoid burnout, and the power of notebooks for focus.

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You have to, relationships are so, come off your phone. 

Mm mm 

Come off your phone and connect with people because when you build that trust, it helps you get through doors a lot quicker. Do you get what I mean? I feel like that's been your journey. Yeah. Um, and it's been mine as well. And that's how I landed my first, first roll.

Hello everyone. Hope you're doing well. Hope you're looking after yourselves. Welcome to another episode of The Student Guide, where we bring on incredible guests to share incredible experiences and topics, uh, to offer you advice on how you can learn, develop, and grow. Uh, as you know, uh, we are slowly approaching the midway point of season nine, which is wild, but we're here, uh, and I brought another amazing guest speaker to speak to you.

Uh, we've been working on this for, for some time, but we, we locked on a date. We found. We found an occasion and we're both here. Uh, but as you know, I don't like to do introductions, uh, 'cause I think it's best for us here from these incredible people themselves. So instead, I'm gonna hand over to today's guest.

Uh, Evan, thank you for coming. Could we know a bit more about you and what you do? 

That's because you don't do your assignment. You said that's I asked you to do I only jealous number. Hi guys. Welcome. Uh, my name is Evan. I am a Multihyphenate Creative. Um, I work within the creator and marketing industry, navigating a non-linear career.

So, um, we'll talk more about that later on. Um, but yeah, really passionate about personal development. So helping creators and creatives build confidence in networking, um, you know, curating communities where creatives can connect. Um, and also helping creators, um, go from vibes to value. Mm-hmm. So how do you translate what you are good at into making money?

So, yeah. Okay. 

Well, well, we were talking about it before. I've gotta put the, hopefully it's being paid. It looks like it's, I've gotta put the applause on because that was incredible. Um, also, uh, it's not one of the questions here. You spoke at a speaking event today, like just with like hours before doing this recording.

Um, what was, first of all, what was the event? What was that like, and what was one thing that surprised you about that. 

Um, so that event was, uh, it was an event put on by a company called Workspace Global. And, uh, it was for small business owners, for founders and creators who want to, who want to, or are building brands online.

Um, and so a lot of the pain points that they had was, oh, you know, the algorithm is Eat my butt. That sounds crazy. That sounds crazy. You know, they didn't say that. Exactly. Biting my butt to That's crazy. See, my brain just does too much. Um,

yeah. Anyway, so basically, yeah. People, you know, really people really are being, you know, the algorithm, how do I get out content, how do I be visible online? All of that stuff. A hundred percent. And um, and what was great was a segment where, you know, they would pitch, so they would say their, um, what their business is.

Mm-hmm. And we would give them feedback on how to make their message, so their brand message more succinct. 

Mm-hmm. 

Um, so that what they want is clear. 

Mm-hmm. Um, 

I think what surprised me is that no matter what level you are, whether you are a founder of a million multimillion pound business, there's always iterating and refining to do so.

People on all levels are still trying to figure out a better way to communicate what they do ultimately. 

Wow. 

Yeah. It 

would've been nice to have been invited this, now you're spiting knowledge. And now I'm like, 

they, they invited so last minute. It was so last minute, but I, I was grateful to be a part of 

it.

Sounds incredible. Yeah. Um, and that's why one of the reasons why I, I asked you to be honest 'cause you have an incredible story and I'd love to hear more. Yeah. Uh, but before we go into our official questions, we always go to our 44 question segment, which is a question provided by Amanda from 44 words.

Um, this is, this is this, this maybe a tough question 

Oh. 

But I'm looking forward to the answer. Okay. As a community curator, what's your favourite, interesting way to start a conversation in a room full of strangers and why does it work? 

I love this question because. Yeah, I love this question. So my interesting way, very simple way is really finding what people are passionate about.

Mm-hmm. 

That's my thing. So I always utilise this when I'm going into like networking spaces. When I meet someone new, I hate the what do you do? Question. I hate it because we all do multiple things, right? Especially if you are a graduate or you are someone who's navigating, like going into a new career, sometimes it can be really difficult to articulate what it is that you do.

Um, but I think a more powerful, um, way to, to gather someone's essence is asking about what they are passionate about. And I think every encounter that I've had with that has one, either made people think two, made people light up and feel validated in that moment. It's like, oh, you know, I like this. So when people come to me and they're like, you know, what is it you do?

I'm like, well, what I'm passionate about is, um, you know, travel community and creators and showing that they X, Y, Z, X, Y, Z. You know what I mean? So I think that's such a powerful question to ask in any situation. 

Oh, that's beautiful. Well, I know what I'm gonna be doing at my next networking event, uh, so thank you very much for that.

Um, but we're now gonna go into the first official question, and this is about, uh, your turning point. So you, as you've mentioned already in your bio annual bio, in your description, just before you know, you, you've highlighted that you are a multi hyphenate. You built a reputation, uh, as someone who is not only just a host, but also a facilitator who gets people to connect as humans first, which is the most important thing.

Yeah. 

So my question for you is, what was the moment you realised, this is my lane. This is where I like this is what I need to do and this is where I'm the strongest. Uh, and how did you, oh, sorry. And what did you have to unlearn to step into that lane confidently? 

Ooh. Yeah. Good. Okay. Um, okay. So the first moment that I knew that I was good at, I guess, pe, you know, good with people and good with conversations and connecting, I would say goes as far as early as, um, secondary school.

So in secondary school I was very, very dry at the typical subjects. So maths, you know, science, um, I, if I wanna say what, I'll go in that subject where let's just say we were flourishing elsewhere. And, um, yeah. I really struggled at secondary school with, um, yes. Specific sub subjects. Um, but when it came to drama 

mm-hmm.

I remember one time, um, you know, we were doing drama GCSEs, but before Drama D GCSEs, I think they make you do like, you know, these mini, mini like practise exam in between and stuff. And so they said, um, s we would like for you to, um, in fact the whole class to come up with like a monologue piece in like four minutes, come up with that and perform it to the class.

So I went to the corner by myself, I was like, oh yeah, I'm gonna come up with this idea. So I came up with this crazy idea 

mm-hmm. 

At the time the hurricane Katrina had happened. Mm. Right. Um, and at such a young age, I dunno why that really resonated, but it was all over the news at that time. I'm really giving off my age here.

And, um, and yeah. And so they were like, yeah, it's time to come back. Everyone come back into the room. And so we did this exercise called hot seating. 

Mm-hmm. 

And so hot seating is where you have like a character that will sit in the middle and, um, you would, people will ask you questions and performance, stuff like that.

So it was now my turn. So I was now in the hot seat and, um, yeah. And action. And it was time for me to perform. 

Mm-hmm. 

And so I'm performing and I'm like into my character. 

Mm. 

And I have this, like, I put on an American accent. I don't even know too much, too much TV run, but I put on an American accent. Like I was, I had made up this story about, you know, losing my twin and the, the hurricane.

And it was just so, it was, I was just like in it. 

Mm-hmm. 

And I remember my eyes filled with mm-hmm. I, I'd left the room entirely because I was just so, you know, like channelling, I was channelling my inner, and then when I opened my eyes, the whole room was silent. Wow. Every single person was quiet. Wow. And I could just see my teacher like shedding a tear and I was like.

Uh, I finished and then, you know, when you hear the slow clap, I said, damn. And then they, you know, everyone's started clapping and everyone wanted to work with me after that. For the first time. Everybody wanted to work with me. Can I be your partner for the, you know, because everyone was shining past the GE.

And so that was the first time I knew I was good at capturing attention, at connecting with people on an emotional capacity through speaking. So, so to speak out, you know, of course, like through the capacity of acting. Um, and so I knew that. Even through my career as like transitioning from being someone who was, you know, wanted to be an actress, I still do wanna be 

you.

It's coming, you know? 

Um, I still want to be, but I've channelled that into, you know, coaching, facilitation, talking to large groups, and really being able to help, you know, brands or help drive the message. Um, and that's something, you know, we might talk about AI later, but that's just something AI cannot do, you know?

Um, so yeah. Yeah. 

Okay. 

Yes. I, I feel like you had another question. Yes. 

It was, what did you need to unlearn to step into this confidently? So it could be habits, practises. 

Do you know what, what I needed to unlearn is that my creativity was not valuable. It wasn't important because I think that as creatives you are taught, especially like if you come from a Nigerian household mm-hmm.

Or an African household like that, you are stripped away from the value. Like, you know, only doctors can be rich. Mm-hmm. Only lawyers can be rich, only certain. Do you get what I mean? So you are almost kind of programmed that you are gonna fail, or you are, you are not going to amount to anything as, you know, as successful as someone who is a doctoral lawyer, if that makes sense.

Mm-hmm. 

So in that mindset, you, you are always kind of, I mean, I was always conditioned to believe that I can never really make money from this line of career. I can never really have sustainability, stability. Um, I can never really, does that make sense? And so I am still on that journey, like figuring that out.

Um, even, you know, having, like graduating, even navigating unemployment, even navigating freelancing and all of the shebang, um, to building a sustainable career for myself as a creative. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. 

That's beautiful. And I think like a lot of people listening, well, I mean, I can definitely relate ourselves, share my experience.

Um, 'cause I think one of the things like you said there is that like, I know, I know when I like, well, as soon as you drama was a subject I was very much interested in. And, uh, I knew when I was just, ah, you know, drama's interesting. My parents were just like, you know, scientists can be actors too. Like, you know, if you, if you think about it, you, you don't need to like, rush into acting.

Yeah. Look, because you can be an actor later on in life. You know, they're just like, look, all these big actors, you know, they, they would do it. Like some of them are accountants, some of doing this, some of that. And then they went into acting and then they did really well. They're just like, you don't need to rush into it.

Take your time. Um, and I agree. I think that there's definitely something when it comes to the creative industries that everyone's just like, oh, um, like there was ah. Is either something I saw on Instagram or a talk I went to that someone was just like, creatives are the only people that when it comes to like their pricing and like knowing how much they can make from it.

Yeah. They're always like, oh, I don't like, I don't know a number. I don't know what this is. I don't know what that is. Um, whereas they were saying like, if, if you turn to a tech person and say like, I need a website built, they're like, boom, it costs this much. And if you can't afford it, tough. Whereas they're saying with creatives, it's like, eh, I've got like wiggle room.

Like yeah, yeah. What's your budget? Like, can you do this? They're just like, no. Like people in tech, people like accountants. Yeah. And accountants talk. They said a perfect example, which I think, yeah, it was that a talk, and I mentioned that talk inspired me. I'm not going to go into like plumbing and being an electrician, but I was like, no way has anyone turned to a plumber?

Plumber's been like, so yeah, the quote is like 500. They've been like, well, I've got 300. And the plumber's like, well, I can meet you like halfway, and like, I can do this for you. Mm-hmm. I was like, unless you're a family friend, the plumber's gonna be like I said, 500 now. Like, I can either leave it or you can then incur more expenses or you can gimme the 500 and we can get this done.

Yeah. 

Um, so yeah, I agree. I feel like creators are, we're we, we are basically a group of people that, like, when it comes to pricing, we don't always feel like we can just be like, boom, this is how much it costs. Yeah. Um, and I feel like, like you said, there's definitely something about understanding that as a practise and unlearning that.

Um, 'cause someone was just like, look, like if you do, like, and that's one of the things, like with some of the stuff we're doing to pick up the mic, they're like, when we're doing like pricing research and like figuring out what other people charge, they'll just like, well, sometimes someone who's bigger.

And that's, uh, funnily enough what, uh, a friend, uh, who came to one of my events was saying she was just like, oh, this event was really good. Loved it. Um, she was just like, and you charge this much and you gave people this much wild, because she was just like, I know people that pay like 20, 30 pounds more than what you're charging.

And she was just like, I know the events suck. They're, they're, they're, they're a bit worse. They're sometimes a bit worse. Sometimes much worse. Um, and she was saying, no, like you create, like, if you are able to create something that anyone who attends, whether it's like you got 20 people or a hundred people or a thousand people, but you're able to make that experience for each of those groups really well.

Um, she was saying, yeah, that's always something that you need to just know when it comes to like absolutely what you offer. Sorry. 

Yeah. I, I 'cause last year, last year or what? You were in 

2056. 

So was it last year? No. 23 and four. 

Mm. 

I couldn't even charge. Mm. I was like three, like. I didn't know how to chart, bearing in mind I have, you know, following community and stuff like that.

Um, I had like 10 K followers, um, and I was like, I don't, you have 10 K in my bank account. How does this work? How does this 

work? It's rough. 

You know, what's the math the math isn't math in? And, um, and at that time I knew something was wrong because I couldn't bring myself to charge someone even 300 pounds for three months of work.

I couldn't, I, I didn't know how to do that. And so I was like, this, I definitely need to work on this because I'm not being employed. No one's employing me. I do have talent and skill, so how do I bring together talent and skill and monetization together? Right. And that's the bit that creators and creative, so creatives being marketers, social media managers, all of those people and creators being people who create content online, they still haven't gotten that bit.

Right. So, you know, you might have people who have 1 million followers and are still struggling to know how to monetize and make money. Yeah. And you know, the path that I've experienced and learned from is, you know, being able to teach people, um, something that you are knowledgeable on and, um, you know, which is why I started mentoring creatives.

Um, but yeah, so from, from 2024, couldn't charge not even 300 pounds, three months of work, um, to now where, you know, again, I'm still on that journey. I'm still learning, but my nervous system, and again, this is all a part of, it's all it is psychology. Mm-hmm. It's your, it's your body adjusting and relearning, like money, beliefs and all of that kind of stuff.

Um, but yeah, to being able to charge like 3000 from one client, do you get what I mean? 

Mm-hmm. 

To someone else that is no money. But to me, I know where I've come from. I know what I couldn't charge before and I know what I can charge now. Yeah. And so I feel like pricing is definitely like a, a, it's a journey, you know?

Um, one thing that, uh, Myron Golden said, uh, who is, um, a coach that I, um, have been coached by through Yeah. I'll speak, speak about that. Not time, but Mar Gordon is amazing. 

Mm-hmm. 

Um, and, um, he said. Charge an amount that makes you smile. 

Mm. 

Right? 

Mm-hmm. 

So when you are charge, and that has helped me. So when you are charging, if it doesn't make you smile, it's the wrong price.

Mm-hmm. So if you look at a figure, like, I remember when I was about to coach someone and I was like, oh, again, this was in the season where I was like, I don't really know my price. I was like, oh, maybe I'll charge like 300 and I'll charge her like 395 pounds. Okay, yeah, that's right. This was gonna be, I can't remember, maybe like four, maybe four, four weeks of like coaching, 

like 

one-to-one coaching.

But it didn't, like, it felt like, okay, that's what I could do. But there was a doubt there. Like I, I'm like, I can do that, but it doesn't feel, it doesn't, if I look at my bills, if I look at the amount of the other clients that I need to make up for, if I look at my expenses, it doesn't make me smile. So then my friend, when I took the price to my friend and I was like, oh, um, yeah, I wanna charge like 395.

I was like, yes.

What Mount makes you smile. Mm. And I was like,

I kind of want a girl for like 700 and something, you know? But I was like, well, but she might not be able to afford it though. You know? I remember, you know, having the call, you know, doing the sales call and um, you know, basically saying again, I would, this is what I'm able to support you with. Um, this is the investment and it's 700 and x, y, z and I remember pausing, I'm like 700 and something.

So you kind of like, if you are doing a sales call, um, and for some of you who have like brands or you are starting to build, like, you know, you might have to kind of go down this road, um, people will say, you just have to wait in the silence. 

You 

know, you wait in the silence and see what they say. Right.

Um, and I just had to wait and it's just like, yeah, sure how much. Yeah, sure, that's fine. Um, I was like, yep, you would, you like to pay now or like bring out your card and, and she paid right on the, I think just after the call, you know what I mean? And, 

sorry, gimme one, 

one 

minute. 

I Yeah. Had the call with the client and yeah, she was more than happy to pay.

So no, imagine if I'd gone with the 300 and something pounds, right? 

Mm-hmm. 

With the belief that, oh, I'm charging her too much, blah blah. So it's really about helping creators and helping you to understand the value that you are providing. 'cause if you're confident in the value that you're providing, the pricing is just isn't, is is a byproduct of that.

Do 

you get what I mean? Understand. '

cause 

even when I think about 700 and something pounds, I'm like, well, you know what? I'm teaching you for the next couple of weeks. You are probably gonna land a three K, 5K, 10 K client in the years to come because of what I've taught you. Do you know what I mean? So I could have even charged more.

Mm-hmm. 

So it's the self-belief for me that's quite important. Um, and that I'm again still on the journey of, but I really want, um, to support creators and graduating grad graduat graduate graduates to understand. 

No, a hundred percent. I think the final thing I'll say before, um, we go onto the next question.

Yeah. Is, uh, yeah. Based on what you were saying, you know, the biggest example of people who like understand this, people who do sip and paints, when I tell you, oh, I have, yeah. So basically, so my sister for her birthday thing was like, oh, let's do a sip and paint. It'll be fine, it'll be nice. And I was like, sure.

So we invited our friends. This sip and paint was like. Maybe, maybe 50, maybe 50 pounds for an hour. Um, and it was like you get one free glass of Prosecco. 

Okay. 

And then so she, she didn't know, she thought it was just gonna be like a slow, like just paint. So it was, um, I put the, the reference image, but you know that wave, Japanese wave painting.

Okay, 

okay. 

Yeah. So it was like recreating that in an hour. So already like ambitious. Sure. Okay. So she was like, let's hit, let's hit the ground running. Uh, the guys are like, yeah, so we're gonna move, we're gonna move quickly 'cause we've only got an hour with you. So he was just like, we're doing this, doing this.

It's moving quickly. Okay. One of my sister's friends was like, I'm already tapped out. I, I'm just gonna paint my own thing. I don't need to do what this guy's doing 'cause I'm gonna enjoy this one hour. Uh, other of us were just like, okay, we're gonna try and replicate it. We're gonna do all of this, do all of that.

Yeah. Um, then it finished and he was like, yeah, so you need to like stop. It's like it's been an hour. You need to stop. You need to stop. We need to get ready for the next class. If you wanna stay and get more drinks, you can go to the bar, you can get drinks. Um, and then I was talking to my sister. I was like, that's wow.

So like for an hour where, to be fair, yeah. We did paint. Yeah. It was nice. It was fun. Like it was great that we got the picture. I was like, kind of like was rushed and I was like, yeah, we got it on a canvas. I was like, I don't really see, like canvases can't be that expensive. The materials, like they buy it in bulk 'cause they were doing multiple classes, so I was like 50 pounds.

And then I was like, lemme just do some investigation. And then, so there's someone that I know that I work with, she basically is a sip and paint facilitator. She was saying, oh yeah. Like, um, sometimes I've worked. So she gets hired by organisations to do it and she was just like, I'm the type of person that I love.

Like, I can make it simple or as complicated as you want. So if you just wanna paint on a three pieces or a four pieces of paper, great. Let's do that. I can do it on printing paper. If you want it on special card, we can do it on special card. If you want it on canvases, we can do that. She was just like, the main thing that will just alternate is basically your budget.

And I was like, fair enough. Um, but then I was like, I've looked into it and I've seen that like some people are charging like 120 for two hours of painting. It's like, do out a painting. I can buy the materials for for a third, a third of that. Well, even a third, like I could buy it for like 20 pounds. I could get all the materials.

I could paint a picture for 20 minutes and watch it. But like you said, it's because the facilitators and the organisations that run them know we've got the experience, we've got the skill. Uh, maybe the budget is going towards covering that one drink. Maybe it's going towards like venue hire, but they are, they know this is basically how much we need to survive and like to break even on this event.

And this is how much we can add more. Yeah. Uh, so I agree with you. Throw the, throw the audacious price because uh, if people are paying even, um. Experience There was. So, and uh, I need to preface this by saying, 'cause I know that the, the friend, the friend may watch this, uh, and I had a great birthday. I won't, I won't name them, but I had a great birthday party.

But we went to, um, the, the squid game. Uh, so they had that squid game experience, which was like, it's Oh, about 

this. How was that? 

It was okay. 

Oh, it wasn't, it wasn't hitting my No, 

because like, it wasn't hitting my, like you expect No, because you're expecting it to, you're expecting it to be like the, like the TV obviously, like, no one's gonna die.

Fair enough. That's cool. But like, the games were like

one, you've been trying to get rid of her go along. Um, but no, you were expecting it to be like a bit more like, 'cause I did, um, I did the Crystal Maze one with my old workplace, and that one was like fun. It was like active, you were all running around the place. Like it was really like getting you going.

This one. So like, maybe like three or four rooms. They had the glass game, but basically it was like a light boards. You had to remember the pattern and then you were just walking. If you stepped on the wrong one, it would like beep. And then it was weird. 'cause at the start it was okay. 

So you wouldn't fall down and break your neck?

No, no, no. Literally you're just walking on like Glo uh, like light up panels. And if you got it wrong, you'd then have to step off. You wouldn't get any points. Um, and yeah, it was just like the what, so basically it was wild because they were just like, okay, you are working together as a team to begin with.

So all of your points are accumulating. And then they said towards the end, well basically like the lowest players will start to, I don't even think they dropped out. They had a leaderboard and then they were just like, okay, cool. The, they had the, the, you have to be on like the certain, like squares, symbols, all of this at the end.

And then, yeah, it just basically like wasn't fun. And then 'cause you were, it was all ages. So you're doing it with like, children who are like super young compared to like 

child in Sweden. 

You see what I mean? And it, and went to one of my friends who actually, it was his birthday. He got, he got slide tackled.

'cause this guy was like, ah, I'm getting on this spot. And just slid in and tackled him and he fell. Um, and they were just like, oh yeah, you know, like, people need to be careful. This is, but I was just like, nah, this is also like a gen. Like I was just like, you dude, 

genuinely a hazard. 

Yeah. Like this isn't safe.

And then at the end they were just like, okay. So the way it works is it's like, uh, so whoever wins, 

yeah. 

They were just like, you can either get something for yourself or something for the group. And then everyone was just like, ah, like, do it. And then we all just like, I don't imagine like we're all gonna get like 50 pounds or anything.

It is, it is gonna be like something to do with the game. Um, so I think the person went with their own individual prize. 

Oh. 

Um. And then, yeah. I heard from other people that it's literally like, you either get something from the gift shop and then if everyone gets something, I think it's like you get a free drink.

So I was like, oh no. They're like, the crystal maze one was like, so much better. Like, you got a medal, you were like, it was like fun and active. It was across like multiple floors. It was like big. So I was like, this is good. I was expecting squid game to be the same. Oh. And I was just like, ah. Um, so that's another thing.

I'm just like, these companies know how to child and take money and the spirit is lacklustre. 

But, but this is what you're saying, like you can create 

Mm. 

And this is the thing about curation. You can curate an experience. It doesn't have all that fact, it still delivers value 

a hundred percent. 

You get what I mean.

So that's something to think about because from the, uh, sip and Peyton experience, the one hour 50 minutes, it's like, hmm, was it worth it for you? You know, like, or would it have been worth it to have like a two hour session where you have a slower experience? Do you know what I mean? So when you are designing these experiences, or these courses or these, or, or if you have a product or a service, whatever it is that you're doing, you've got to think about your customer, your client.

Like what is it that's gonna make someone wanna buy this again to refer it to somebody? You know, like the, the, and, and it's the value perception as well, because it was 50 pound for one hour. If I knew that I had to rush, I'd rather just go pay 100 pounds to have a really slow, decent time. Yeah. Do you what I mean?

So perception, value, sequence, 

not a hundred percent. Um, but yeah, we're gonna go on to the next question because actually we, you, you've kind of teased the topic. Okay. 

Uh, 

which is looking at three things that may seem disconnected, but, uh, through you, they are all connected. So it's a DHD, self-worth and money.

Ooh. Uh, so you've spoken about transforming your relationship with money and self-worth while living with A DHD. What did that transformation look like in real life? So were there any changes in habits, boundaries, and beliefs? And what's one shift that our audience should try this week? 

We should try.

That's good. So A DHD, um. So I, I, I had my official diagnosis in I think 2023. Okay. 2023. Um, the reason why I went to go and look into it is because I was really struggling with, I mean, I struggled at university to be honest, um, uh, with, uh, my dissertation. So getting my dissertation together was tough. I went from 3000, I went from like 6,000 words on the last, on the day of the deadline mm-hmm.

Of my dissertation to 3000 words. I basically deleted half of the dissertation because it wasn't making sense to me. Okay. I submitted it like that. Okay. And then, because I was, I was tired. I was done, I had spent so much time trying to get the words together, to do the framework, to do the bibliography. I was, I had aimed to get a first mm-hmm.

Um, at, at university. And it just wasn't happening. And I couldn't understand what's wrong with me. Like I'm, I'm doing my best. I'm putting my, my all in. Um, and you know, of course it goes back into childhood. I always was told that I'm easily distracted in class, but I never really understood it. Like, 'cause I'm thinking, well, my God will come for parents.

She evening. I'm thinking, I swear I did good. I swear I did good. And I, and then the teacher will say that same thing over like ever. She's really bubbly. She has, you know, she's really good with this, but she's so easily distracted. She's always daydreaming or, you know, always chatting in class and getting, you know, like the person who spoke wouldn't get in trouble, but I would get in trouble kind of thing.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So when I, when I was at university trouble with my dissertation, I had to redo my dissertation again, which was crazy painful. 'cause I had to spend the summer doing it. And, um, yeah, it was really tough. And then kind of looking at my career journey, and again, being multi hyphen, it can really be a challenge.

Mm-hmm. Um, and then being freelance and then having inconsistent income and all of this kind of stuff. So it's, you know, a DHD, you know, really is about like, I mean, for me it's like inattentive. Um, so there's hyperactive inattentive, and for me it was inattentive. Um, and it, what I really struggled to do is like, you know, multitasking, um, you procrastination, like hyper focusing on things.

Mm-hmm. 

Um, and for me it was just like. Now seeing that translate into this career that I've designed that, that I'm in the middle of trying to design for myself when, you know, maybe full-time employment had never really been an option. It's like, okay, cool. Well, I'm freelancing. I'm good at what I'm doing.

I'm delivering workshops, I'm, I'm coaching, I'm doing all these things. Mm-hmm. Some months I get 5K, some months I get 500 pounds. The months I get 50 p how do I play? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And so, so, and then what? And then with a DH, adhd, it's like impulsivity as well. So you just buy stuff. I mean, I'm not a massive spender, but, you know, I did recognise, like, so people like would say, oh, you know, they spend money on lot clothes that ain't need for me.

Okay. I book flights. You know what I'm saying? Okay. So for me, it was like, I was travelling all the time, but then my finances were a bit edgy. I'm like, I'm a little bit of debt, but I'm like, but it felt right to travel because I'm like, again, with a DH adhd, you get bored very easily. You need stimulation, dopamine.

Mm-hmm. So for me, travel was like an escape. Um, and at the time I, again, built a following and I had, uh, you know, travel flow, like people who love travel or who would follow my content. Mm-hmm. But, you know, they, they will get fomo, you know, from me being in Colombia, Costa Rican, these different places, which again, like my career has, I was able to build a career or have been able to build a career from travel itself.

Mm-hmm. Um, but the reality of that was, um, debt, you know, I, I was struggling with, you know, debt at the time and, um, and inconsistent income. And, and then, you know, it's just like, this is a lot. 

Mm-hmm. 

How do I, how do I manage this? Mm-hmm. And so for me, there had to be a education of personal finances for myself of, uh, revisiting like, and relooking into the habits that were preventing me from growing my growing money.

You know? And, and that's not just having a DH adhd, that's just a personal finance thing. Right. And, which I feel, you know, a lot of creators, if you are graduates as well, you are probably gonna wanna look at what you have right now, what you want to have, and how to get there and budgeting and, you know, and, and, and really making it work for your own lifestyle, right?

Mm-hmm. Um, so that, I think that's what it has been for me. And, um, what that looked like practically as well was coming away from social media. So I took a social media break. Um, so I was on Instagram, so I came off Instagram, TikTok, um, LinkedIn at the time. And, um, yeah, it was supposed to be a six month social media break.

I came off for a year and a beat, so six months turned into 18 months. And whilst I was away from social media for, for the 18 months, I literally spent time watching YouTube videos on personal finances, on wealth building, wealth management, investing. Like learning how people not only get rich or get wealthy, but how they, like what are the core foundations.

And when I watch all the personal finance videos 

mm-hmm. 

I realise that they're all kind of saying the same thing. So if they're all saying the same thing, then those are the, for me, that, that curates some element of truth. 

Mm-hmm. 

And those are the principles, which is. To your question. Now, what is something you can do, you know, is to go and look at your budget sheet, like go and look at the sheet where you like, and if you don't have that, then create it.

Mm. 

For me, I look at my numbers every, every month at least. Every month at least. So at least one Friday a month, I will look at my income. So for example, if you are a freelancer, I, 'cause I could never get it right. I was like, how do I plan, how do I financially forecast if my income is all over the place?

Do you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Uh, it's not something I can help because I don't have a full-time job. Mm-hmm. But have to work with what I have. 

Mm-hmm. 

Do you know what I mean? And so I had to, you know, like, okay, look up my income, like write down what's income, write down my expenses. Mm-hmm. Um, and then kind of like, and then budget from that.

Mm-hmm. So I'm not budgeting because I'm not making like one consistent amount a month, but like for each income I'll have to kind of like split it up. Do you get what I mean? I 

got you. 

So I would say face the reality of the numbers that are in front of you and that will help you build confidence on what to do next.

Or give you clarity on what to do. Whether that action is to, you know, start tackling the student loan debt. Mm. Or to start tackling something like, you know, a debt that you have or, um, start paying off staff or start, um, growing your income. It will be like, oh, okay, well I need to make X amount. And to your point, you know, you said earlier about when we're talking about pricing, like knowing your base rate, like your, so like the amount that you need to survive on.

I didn't know what mine was for a very long time and so I, I was always frustrated with pricing, right? So if you know your base rate, if you know that, you know what, I can live off 1000 a month or five KA month, right? Mm-hmm. Like it's different for different people. But if you're speaking to maybe early years creators or whatever it might be, you know, do you know what I can survive off 1000 a month.

Mm-hmm. So you know that the income you need to generate needs to be able to at least cover that baseline. 

Yeah. 

Does that make sense? That makes sense. Um, so yeah, I'll say those two things. Mm-hmm. Establishing what your baseline is. 

Mm-hmm. 

And looking at your budget sheet. 

That's perfect. Uh, I will say three things before we go onto the next segment, which is, uh, number one, like you said, uh, I cannot share the template 'cause it's not mine.

Uh, but I would say you can find it online, uh, through an accelerator programme I was on, they were saying you need, uh, which is basically to your point, is having like a cash flow statement. So they said, uh, so basically it's run by, and I use this example of someone who's like created a business and it's like.

Just the perfect, they found their group and how to make money. Um, so they are an accountant and they were just like, I work with creators on a, like off by chance basis, but I've realised the creators don't understand like funding. They don't really understand if they're going to funding or doing all these applications or looking for investment.

They need to have stuff like a profit and loss statement, a cashflow statement. They need to understand when do they break even, um, what are their, what are they forecasting for the next year for their financials. So she was just like, why don't I create a business that basically is focused on supporting, like basically she, her tagline is accounting for creators.

Um, and I was like, yeah, that's incredible. So she was saying, oh, I've developed this like template and she shared it with us on the accelerator and it was like, okay, cool. So this is basically your top three activities that you do that bring you income. Yeah. And then it's like, okay, how much cash comes in from that on a monthly basis?

Yeah. And then what's your expenditure? So well you gonna have to pay for marketing. Are you gonna have to pay for travel? Are you gonna have to pay for, you know, um, I don't know, like sponsorships with someone to help boost it. Um, 'cause she was then saying, the reason why you need that is because that then shows you how much over the next year.

Like what is actually your forecasting is gonna actually take money from you. Mm-hmm. So if you're like, Hey, um, I wanna launch something new with my business, or like, oh, we've been really struggling to get like income for this part of the business. She was like, well if you know that like you're doing let's say a photography videography service and travel is like the main thing, then she was saying, well now you know, you need to bump up your base price because travel's not been included before.

Um, she was saying, which to be fair, most creative don't do, don't do. Um, so she was saying like, the reason why you need to have this cash flow is because it will show you like, okay, well I'm actually losing loads of money on these things. Yeah. And I need to then figure out when I'm charging this, like if someone's like, oh, but like that feels a bit expensive, you can then be like, well actually to live I need this amount of money.

You 

go through feelings. 

Exactly. 

The feelings. Put the feelings in the bin. 

A hundred percent 

bin it 

a 

hundred because it's not feelings that I was gonna put food on your table. You know what I'm saying? 

A hundred percent. 

Yeah. 

Um, so she was saying just like, just like use that for that. Yeah. Um, and then I know I said it three things, but it's actually now just two.

Um, the second thing I was gonna say is actually links to art. Let me quickly get it up. Uh, mic check, which is a fact figure that's related to this conversation. And this comes from, uh, NHS digital and in England they've estimated that, uh, over two, so sorry, 2 million people, uh, have a DHD including those that are without a diagnosis and up to, uh, almost 550,000 people may be waiting for an assessment.

Uh, this comes out stats from March last year. Uh, but this also important highlights the importance of, like you said, like understanding, um, like yourself as someone who either you know, you're diagnosed as being neurodiverse or you may feel that you are neurodiverse. Yes. Um, so yes, it highlights the importance of understanding.

And I will say, guys, I do have a book. 

Oh yeah, 

I do have a book. Um. I don't know. It it, it might not be out by this episode, but it will be out soon. 

Okay. 

Um, but, but the book is about, um, specifically targeted at women. Um, you know, helping women go from surviving to thriving with A DHD. So designing a life that works for your brain.

Um, and yeah, it's just been my journey and a lot of the tools and, um, resources that will help you to design a life on your terms, uh, that works for your brain ultimates. So, um, look out for my book. Okay. Out soon. 

Yeah. We'll be excited. And if it, if the episode, well actually any, at any time when the the book comes out, let us know.

We'll put it in the links. Yeah. Maybe I'll 

have to come back and like, 

yeah. Yes, please. Um, but now we hand over to you, 'cause this is Treasure Talks, uh, where we ask our guests to, uh, bring an item of significant importance to them. They can either bring it in person or we can make the picture magically appear on the screen.

Uh, but yes, uh, this is what I hand over to you. Could you let us know what the item is and why it's significant to you?

Okay. 

Don't act like it's super. 

No, I like, I like the do not the disturb on it.

Honestly, I, I really did bring this on purpose, but, um, so why did I bring my notebook? In this world of digital and being constantly online, um, you know, you know, we spend so much time on our phones. Um, I'm always typing on notes as someone who is neuro divergent as well, I always do find that having my book to write on, like physically, um, helps information stick better for me.

Um, and the reason why I, you know, like I literally have my notebook on me everywhere. Even like, some days I might not end up using it, but it's just a great way to brain dump ideas because what happens with me as well is like, when an idea comes to mind, I'm like, I wanna write it down. But then when I go to my phone to write it down, then a message comes in and then I forget the, you know, I forget what I was initially going for.

And that's the thing with a DH, adhd, that short term memory, it's crazy. So I'm like, oh yeah, I have an idea. Write it down, message comes up, reply to the message, forgot the idea. So for me, having this on me enables me to like, write down ideas or information straight away. So just that pen to paper contact really is, um, amazing.

And I always take a notebook with me when I travel, when I'm local, when I'm at home, I journal as well. I haven't journaled for a time. I need to fix that TK Max need to release more, better journals. Yeah, they had some, but, uh, yeah, I'll need to revamp. But yeah, so yeah, my notebook is my, my my special thing.

No, I love it. Um, 'cause yes, we, we, we, multiple times, I think even in the season I've spoken about the importance of, uh, writing things down, um, from not only like you said, like just like getting ideas out of your head and actually having them physically in a space. Mm-hmm. Uh, there's also science that shows like when you write something down, you're committing to it.

Um, but also just from like a, like, I, I want say it's Freddie Mercury did it. Um, he had to apparently so, uh, like Freddie Mercury does it, and then also my dad doesn't know Freddie Mercury does it, but he does it and recommends to do it too. He's like always have like a notebook by your bed or like under your pillow.

So with Freddie Mercury, apparently it was that basically like he would just, like if a song or like there was a bit of some, like a creative idea that came during the night, he'd write it down or be like, this is what I need to do for this song, but I'll focus it when I wake up. Uh, and then my dad was just like the same thing.

He was just like, you never know what inspiration may come. It may come when you're sleeping may come, like you said, like when you're on the bus or the tube you're at work. Um, so I agree with you. Like sometimes I will have notepads and sometimes I will just be like, especially if, if, uh, well let me know.

Ah, I don't imagine my colleagues won't be listening. Uh, but you know, sometimes you, you're in meetings and you're just like, this is kind of like, this is getting a bit long. Uh, so sometimes I'll just be like, oh, there may be something that's said and I might be like, oh actually this will be a really cool thing to incorporate or pick up the mic.

So lemme just note this down and be like, oh, we could potentially do this. Um, 'cause yeah, you never know, like where these like small ideas can like then turn to big things. Um, 

so I you in the meeting as well, like, you know, like when you're in a professional meeting and you are writing notes on your phone and then they give you that.

It 

now looks like your audio phone. Sometimes just take the notebook. Just take the notebook. Just be 

like, 

before that probation gets right. Like, oh, they give you feedback like PPI was, performance was on. No, but I was just writing notes for the No, they ain't got time for that. No, 

a hundred percent. Um, but we're now gonna go onto the next question, which is from grassroots to brands.

So you've gone from, um, grassroots events, uh, community events to partnering with established brands. So my question to you is, how do you keep your work heart led while still making it commercially viable and respected in boardrooms? 

Oh, that's such a good question. Thank 

you much. Thank you. 

Come on.

Different, um, how do I keep it heart led so. A lot of the work that I have done is centred around belonging, um, people being seen, feeling connected. And that's always it, like at the end of it all, um, do people feel valued? Do people feel connected? Are people having fun? Are they seen? Um, and that's kind of like the work that I enjoy doing.

Mm. Like, you know, if I, if I was working for a company, I really would be looking out for what values, like, uh, did they enjoy, play fun, joy, you know, tho those are really what I, what I love. So for me, um, when it comes to events, that's always what I've been led with. So if I think about some of the, the key, um, you know, projects that I've led, so, um, back in 2017, oh wait, no, 2016, uh, no.

One of those years, um, I, you know, led a campaign that was, uh, a Christmas campaign that was raising awareness for homeless women. 

Yeah. 

Um, uh, so raising awareness on feminine hygiene for homeless women. So, you know, homeless women are cold out on winter, but obviously they're gonna have their menstruate menstrual cycles.

And I, it just occurred to me like, how are they, how do they, how do they navigate that? Like, being on the street, like, who's providing sanitary towel like towels? Like, I, I couldn't get my head around it. And so I had this idea to curate, to raise awareness around that and to curate an experience that celebrate, well I say celebrate, but raise awareness, but also like, how do we support women?

So and so I partnered with a St. Mongos charity, which is a, um, uh, a female, um, female, uh, female charity. So they take care of homeless women. Um, and I partnered with beauty brands to curate this experience where we did makeovers for homeless women and also raised, um, we raised about 3000 pounds in underwear week, um, to.

To get like feminine products and hygiene. And we also created this banquet experience. So we church, we changed a transformed a church hall into like a long table banquet. And we had these 30 like homeless women who came in and had Christmas dinner, and we had about a hundred volunteers come to that. Um, these were volunteers who had volunteered their time.

Um, they were makeup artists, there were nail art, nail techs, masseuses, massages. Um, we had like donations, uh, because it was picked up on the BBC and Huffington Post and all of these platforms. And we had hundreds of clothes that were donated. So these, these women could come into this shop and get, like, get clothes for free.

So they just picked whatever outfits that they liked. And it's just this like moment, this, it was such a, the experience was so unreal. I, I was, I, I'm older now, um, but back then I was just like, when I look back I'm like, who thinks of stuff like that? And, and I, and I, and I executed and it was great. And we had a great partnership.

We had brand sponsors involved and it was incredible. Um, so again, like I'm always big on like people and like, cause causes. 

Mm-hmm. 

Um, and then the second project was Mentality, which is, um, which was a platform for men specifically to help men stay connected around mental health and wellbeing. Because again, my line of work being within like personal development and coaching and that kind of, 'cause I got a qualification in NLP.

Mm-hmm. 

Which is neurolinguistic programming. Mm-hmm. And I was working a lot with women at the time, and I was doing retreats and events, and they were like, my, my male friends were like, s anything for the man, like, you not, like, you know, you never do some events, tasks. I was like, eh, I don't think y'all quite like, you know, I, I I was under the impression that men don't really go to events when men don't really have those conversations.

So, um, I did some market research, did loads of interviews, and realised that there was a pressing need to create spaces for men. And so I started mentality in 2017 with my co-founders at the time. And, um, and yeah, we scaled, um, very quickly. And it was an incredible experience. We had about 150 men attend our first event.

Mm-hmm. Particularly black men who are the hardest to target. Mm-hmm. When it comes to mental, mental, mental health. Uh, we partnered with links. We have delivered, um, Harry's. Um, we had sponsorships from like Nandos National Theatre. Um, it was great. It was really, really good. And then we led events in, uh, Ghana at St.

Lucia. 

Wow. 

Uh, Spain as well, uh, through like a brand ambassador programme and, um, and yeah. And so to, to bring it all together. For me, it's about people. Mm-hmm. Like, I love, like when people are able to come together and feel like, ah, like. I feel seen. Mm-hmm. Or I can, I'm having a conversation with someone and they feel like they can relate.

Mm. 

Or you know, there's friendships like our birth, like from mentality. Even my guy friends were, they were guy, like, they were making best friends. They didn't call me no more, bro. Do you know what I'm saying? I'm like, play, you know what I'm saying? So, you know, building friendships and, you know, there was like mentors finding mentees within that community.

And so for me that, that is what I love. I love like bringing people together. I have my own big cinema trip. You need to join that, by the way. Okay. I have a big cinema trip community. Um, it is community of like film lovers. So, um, we basically have, we basically like watch movies together. So I love, like, you know, again, the experience of being in the cinema and watching a film by myself, I'm like, that's a drama.

I like going with people. I love the communal laughter. I love like, you know, like talking about the film and reviewing the film afterwards, you know? Um, and so I have that community and that's not something that is monetized or anything, but it's something that I really like, enjoy it. And so, um, so yeah, so I would say communities, people led, um, is really powerful.

And in terms of partnerships is always about being able to translate the value to, you know, like commercial partners, so to speak. So, um, you know, how does that translate for their brand or mm-hmm. You know, because my audience and people within my community can become your clients or your customer a hundred 

percent.

Um, and it's just making sure that there's that brand alignment there. Um, and the be the benefit of it is that from a community, you, you know, communities benefit from commercial. Mm-hmm. Because with Com community, you know, you have more eyes on you, you know, you get the, uh, financial support 

mm-hmm.

Commercially. Mm-hmm. Um, it helps you grow scale, build credibility. Mm-hmm. You know, if, if I say to you, oh, um, we've worked with Reebok and we've worked with freaking, I don't know, like gym shop, you are gonna feel like, oh, you know, these guys know what they're doing as opposed to not having no backing whatsoever.

You know? So that's why I've always been passionate about like, brand partnerships and like community and bringing those worlds together. 

Mm. I think 

of my, my big, 

I was gonna say, the thing that I really like about what you just said there is I think a lot of people feel like commercial, like brands don't care about, like, this heart led community stuff.

Mm. 

Um. Yeah, through everything you've just shared, that's not the case. That's like, 

it isn't the case. I think it's, honestly, it's about mastering the art of being able to communicate value. Like you have to be able to communicate. You can't just go to a brand and be like, oh, just gimme this because we need it.

No, give me this amount because this is what we can do for you. Mm. We can, these are the, these are a demographic, this is the people that we're targeting. This is your customers and these are the crossovers. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like this, your, your, your brand will be on our marketing. It gives, do you get what I mean?

A lot of brands now they are translating into like popups and doing real life events because they need brand loyalty. Now, fa is doing a lot online, you know, so you have to find ways to like, um, to, to stand out and brands understand that now. So 

no, a hundred percent, no. Definitely. Um, we have come to the last question before we go to passing the micro.

You get to ask me questions. Um, and it's all about sustainable visibility without burnout. So this is a two part, and it's, uh, what I say it's tough is I would say I'm, I wouldn't know the necessarily have the best answer for this. Uh, but, uh, what does healthy ambition look like for you now and what systems?

So this could be calendars, it could be, uh, a particular team members you've got, or people you work with. It could be, uh, as we kind of like mentioned, um, with your behind the scenes footage, like a particular, like, you know, like practise or rituals that you do or like a, a habit that you do, uh, pricing or creative process.

So which of these systems helps you stay visible and impactful without burning out? So, uh, I'll ask, first of all, what does healthy ambition look like to you? Now? 

I love this question. You good? Sorry. You good? 

I'm 

good. Anyway, we'll comment onto you. Okay. Um, so healthy ambition 

mm-hmm. 

For me, looks like having.

Systems and processes. It's, it's system and processes that help you to scale. 

Mm-hmm. 

It's the operational, the thi the bits that creators hate the boring stuff. 

Mm-hmm. 

You see creators, let me, lemme talk to you guys. Yeah. I say talk to you guys. Let's have a conversation. 'cause it's us in, we don't struggle with creating, we don't struggle with strategy, we struggle with 

execution.

You know what I'm saying? We struggle with execution. And so it's, so for me, I found that the gap between the, I guess like the strategy and the execution is like, that's the, that's the gap that translates into building. So growing and actually monetizing. 

Mm-hmm. 

Right. So we all have, like, we have the, um, we have like the video content.

We have, um, um, the community, but she's still broke. Mm. How does that work? Mm. You know, I'm, I mean, I'm talking from ms so I'm still navigating, but it is that, and so for me it's finding the help to do the, in-between. Now the unlearning I've had to do in this area is I thought that I needed to be a successful CEO someone who was in, you know, a big, big leadership woman.

Mm-hmm. Um, with a big company to be able to outsource and hire. 

Mm-hmm. 

Farm, you see that chicken shop money if you wanna grow, put it towards your business. Do you know what I mean? 

Mm-hmm. 

Like, it literally is thinking like a business person from early start, putting money towards your side, like. That re because you will need, like, you need that help.

And the thing is, the later you invest, the later you grow. Do you get what I mean? Mm-hmm. If you feel like you are going, you can, um, you know, make content, market the content, um, what else do you do with content? Market the content, make the content, 

like keeping on top of trends, 

keeping on top of trends, all of that.

Being on marketing team, being the creator, face being the hot. I can't talk, then it's gonna, it's gonna slow down your growth. Do you know what I mean? And that's not, people think that, that's, like, being resourceful in that capacity is what makes you successful. It really doesn't, it actually burns you out quicker and then you lose you, you then begin to resent the vision that you had in the first place.

And now you're like, I'm tired, I don't wanna do this no more. Or you feel like quitting. Do you get what I mean? A 

hundred percent. 

But actually, if you start taking compounds in action and start putting money towards small, small things, even if it's like, you know, getting your friend to work with you, um, to build something, you know, feature collaborating.

Now the, the cheapest way to to market right now is collaboration, collaborating. 

Mm-hmm. 

Just jump on a podcast and have a conversation with a friend, you know what I mean? It builds that visibility, so to speak. Or, you know, work, you know, exchange services. So, um, I'm great at capturing content, but, um, I, I can capture my, I can, I'm good at capturing content, but I'm not good at editing content.

So then I will capture your content, but you can edit my content exactly. You gotta be like, as, as like creative as that. Do you got what? I mean, like, in the world of social media today, there is so many ways of, um, you know, making money and it really, honestly, to be a part of the 1%, it does mean that like top 1%, it really does mean that you have to be willing to do what everybody else is not doing.

Mm. 

And that's the hardest part. Mm. If I'm being honest, I ain't even in that 1%. 

Mm. 

And I know that if I allow myself to do what, like if I try to be a cheaps skate and try and like, you know, oh, I'm gonna try and do everything myself. Mm. You know, I know that I'm not running faster than my comp compare.

Like, I'm just not 

Mm. 

I am literally in the same, you know, you know, it's like crabs in a bucket. Like we're all trying to climb out. 

Mm. 

But actually the people who are climbing out, the people that are like flinging ropes to, to get out there thinking of like ideas that, you know, thinking outside, outside of the box to, to grow and they understand what success looks like.

Mm. So getting clear on like, what is success to you? Mm. Like what is it, you know, is being viral successful? 

Mm. 

Is it though? 

Mm-hmm. Do 

you get what I mean? Because you can be viral, but you can be broke. Mm. Like, how does that work? Mm. You know what I'm saying? I 

got saying 

you, you could be viral in front viral for the wrong people, for the wrong audience.

Mm. Or your bots, your bot friends are in the comments thrown up gang signs and you don't even understand what's happening. Yeah. They can't, they don't even know how to charge, like. If, do you get what I mean? You wanna focus on people who will buy your products, who will um, connect with you, who will, if, if you put up an event today, they'll be like, oh, I'm coming to that.

Mm. 

They'll buy, buy a ticket. Do you get what I mean? No. So hopefully answer 

No, I'm to fair to both. Oh yeah. Answer both. Um, 'cause I agree with you. I feel like, uh, like a mix, there's a mixture of things that I love to, so like outside of, well before we started recording, you asked me, you're like, what makes a successful episode?

Yeah. 

Um, and I agree with you. It's like people have been like, oh, like, you know, if the podcast goes viral and this and that, so like, some people in the past have been like, oh, you, like, I, I, I preface by saying like, I don't talk about politics. That's not because like when we, I have a issue with politics or, but I'm just like, that's not what this podcast is about.

I don't need to talk about like, all of that stuff. I'm like, there's enough podcasts that do that. Yeah. I'm also not the type of person that's gonna come on here and just say something that's like controversial that I don't personally believe in. So anything that I say or anything that a guest says, I'm like, you gotta be prepared.

'cause people will come in the comments and they'll be like, why are you saying this? Or like, oh, I don't believe this, this, this, this, that. Da. Yeah. So I've always said that like, for me, if you're gonna, if I say something or if I come on and say it, I have to have the ability to, to back it and just be like, this isn't something that I'm saying to just get viral content.

Um, and I agree with you. I feel like if you look at it like that's why like we kind of pivoted away from just being like, so initially this just stopped, like pick up the mic, just start up as a podcast and you're just like, cool. The clear ways to make money is monetization, sponsorship, all of this and that.

But then to make money, you need to go viral. And then to get viral, you need to do things that you may not necessarily agree with or you may not necessarily do. Um, and it was interesting 'cause I saw this podcast, um, who they like, they do like, um. Think it's called the Escape Podcast, but they're like two, uh, I think they're friends, but like there are two guys who do like, um, sci-fi and fantasy.

They have conversations and stuff. Mm-hmm. Uh, and they were interviewing like this other person that does stuff and they were saying that like, oh, uh, there was a bit where there's a, there's a clip where one of them basically like has like a, like a crash out on the recording. Like he gets so annoyed with someone, he's going like bright red.

Um, and then the people, like the guest that was with him, which is like, oh, I thought you were doing like a bit. 'cause he was like, I feel like as creators, everyone who like recalls content, you get like, if, so there's like, 90% is probably who you are off the camera. 

Uhhuh 

there's like 10% that is just you like, performing for the camera.

Okay. Um, and that kind of was an, when he said that, I was like, that's an interesting comment because I feel like there, there may be times when that does happen for people that, you know, you may be like, oh, um, you know, in front of the camera, I've gotta be like, no, like you shouldn't be smiley and happy on the podcast if you're not.

Like I've said, sometimes I've recorded this straight after work, so like, sometimes I'm like, there's gonna be mistakes. I'm not editing this. I'm not editing them out because like, I'm tired. It's been a long day. Yeah. Um, but I agree with you that there's, you need to really figure out like what success means to you.

So is it creating content that connects with people? Yeah. Is it about, you know, um, like you said, if, if being viral is what you want, are you being viral for the right reasons? Are you prepared for like, you know, in a year's time or two year time or like, let's say 10 years time you may have moved the business or whatever you're doing away from whatever this viral clip was.

Right? If someone goes down your like timeline or like does a bit of background research into you and finds this, are you prepared to be able to back up and say like, this is what you said and this is why you said it. Um, that's the same reason, like, I've told people like, look, um, like I speak about Bruno, I talk about it from my experience, but I've also had people who you've come on and said that going to Bruno wasn't a great experience for them.

Mm. I'm not going to try and shut it down. I'm not gonna be like, that's absolutely wrong. Bruno's the best place on earth. But I'm gonna be like, well, why? Because like, I didn't have that experience and I'd love to know what, what, like, what your experience was like. So yeah, I think, like you said, understanding like what being viral is is important.

But the second thing I was gonna say is like you said as well, like understanding clearly like what, um, the main issue is. Like what, uh. Had it and it went Yes. What, uh, back? No, I thought I, it's like on the cusp, uh, it was when you were talking about 

Let summon the summ, the summ, the for 

Yes. It was, when you talking about systems, thank you very much.

Um, when you talk about systems and like, you not having to do everything. 'cause I agree that like everyone's, especially if you're like a small business founder, you're like, cool, I don't have money, so I need to, uh, develop the website. Then I need to, uh, develop the content. Then I need to develop the product or service.

Then I need to market the product and service. Then I need to be the sales expert. Then I need to, um, you know, be like the head honcho. So I need to go to all these meetings and I need to go to networking events, and I need to like have my 62nd pitch ready, and then I need to apply for all these funding applications and accelerator programmes so I can get some money in.

And it's like, oh no, you don't need to do all of that. The idea is, even like you said, like with businesses, the reason why there's different departments and they hire people is because they're like, oh, cool. We in theory could technically pay one person to do like everything. Mm-hmm. But we understand that like, hey, we actually need someone who's just like, so focused, like you said, is just editing.

Um, and like you said there, you don't need to necessarily like look far or like do all this research or go like hire people. There may be someone in your network that's like, are cool, like, I want to do photography, but I don't have a portfolio and it's a new thing. I'm trying to build it. Or even if they do, you could be like, okay, cool.

I can't. Um, I work with the organisations that are always looking for photographers. Mm. So what I'll do is I will ensure that you always get like a certain number of gigs, but I usually host events like maybe say one a month, and I would love for you to do some photography for me at my event, but I'll also ensure that you get like three gigs a month from, uh, this company that I work for.

Um, and I'm not encouraging this, but I do this myself. Um, but sometimes it's also about looking, especially if you like work while also doing your business. Yeah. It's also about thinking like, I sometimes it's like, for me it's easy. My business and my job interacts a lot and I meet people from both that kind of like come cross into both pathways.

But as you're also really thinking about like, oh, is there a way your like full-time or part-time job could also connect with your like creative venture? Mm-hmm. So if you are saying, oh, you really wanna get into like, you know, similar to you, you wanna get into hosting or facilitation, well, would your workplace let you do like workshops now you might not necessarily, let's be honest, get paid for it because there'll be like, financially, there's, there's a bit of a line that may be crossed and uh, there may be a bit of, um.

I've forgotten what the word is, but it's gone when you basically, like in, you get money, but you are basically giving yourself work through your like, organisation. 

Ah, I see. I don't 

even the name, I've forgotten what the word is, but it's basically, you're not allowed to do that. Long story short. Yeah. So, um, yeah, sometimes it's like that.

So you may be like, okay, I can't get paid for it, but I know I can use this as like a, a marketing tool. So even like for myself, uh, I was like, oh, I really wanna get into workshops. Like I used to do workshops, uh, teaching like young children about like the, the world of stem and like getting them to think about that.

Uh, so when I got into this job, I spoke to my manager and I was like, oh, I'd love to do a workshop on something. And she was just like, oh, well what do you, what, what you thinking about? Like, what could it be? And I was like, um, I don't know. 'cause she was like, oh, like would it be like very niche, like about podcasting?

'cause I feel like, you know, not a lot of people, uh, on the programme that I support would be interested in that. I was like, fair enough. 

Yeah. 

But I was like, actually one thing that I think I'm good at is networking. So I feel like I know how to network and I how to build networks. I know how to like be audacious in your network and like try things.

And so she was like, cool, do it. Like create a proposal of what it would cover. She gave some comments on what, what it should and shouldn't like based on what I put. And then, um, yeah, I delivered it and then now I've used that workshop to then get paid to do, basically do it at other occasions. Um, but yeah, she took photos.

I then like did posts about it. I was like, oh cool. Like I talk about the art of networking, but I do it from a, not a, Hey, if you'll go to a networking event, here are five. I'm just like, no, let's think about like where you are. So I kind of, uh, and to be fair, I probably need to kick this into gear, but the way I do that workshop is I go, uh, I go into spaces and I'm like, okay, cool.

So wherever you are, whether you're students, whether you are entrepreneurs on an accelerator programme, wherever you are, how can you network? Well? So I was like, okay, let's think about where you are and what are like simple things you can do to connect with people. So, uh, one perfect example is I did it a coworking space and I was like, oh cool.

Um, it was actually, to be fair, the first time I did it, I was like, okay, cool. So you are in a coworking space. There's about like 700 people now. There, there may be, there's obviously like big events that take place. Some of them are more networking based, but I was like, go to a social activity that's done here.

Um, or like if you're in the kitchen, start up a conversation. If you see someone wearing like a nice bit of jewellery, like for example, I saw your bracelet and I was like, I'm gonna comment on that. So I was like, the bracelet, it's quite nice. Um, but yeah, it's like you see a nice bit of jewellery or you like their t-shirt or you're like, oh, like give them a compliment.

People love a compliment. Um, even if you're just like, your food smells really nice, like what is it? Have a conversation with someone. Um, and then I've said that like, it's just like slow. Things like that. So you don't need, I think also when it comes to networking, people feel so, like I said in that workshop, people feel like I need to like.

Verbal diarrhoea, like splurge, like everything I need to do my 62nd page, I need to do this, do that. And I'm like, no, you can just be like, Hey, you know, give them a compliment. And if it's in the coworking space, you can be like, oh, like I've not seen you before. Maybe we can catch up when you're next in. If it's a networking event, you can be like, Hey, I know it's like super busy today.

Usually like, you know, these events is really hard to like get to connect with people. But yeah, let's organise like let's connect, let's find the best time that works for us and let's book in something so we can actually like talk and dedicate time to each other. Mm. So I agree with you that like utilise your, the spaces that you are in.

Absolutely. And then build up that creative like skill and knowledge too. Thank you very much. Thank you. Uh, but now we've come on to passing the mic, which is where you get to ask me a series of questions. Uh, yeah. It can be about the topic. I, I am eagerly excited. So, uh, over to you. 

So welcome to my podcast.

My name is Evan and I am you with Jen. 

Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'll put the applause on. 

Okay. So, um, your, um, journey as a creator. Mm-hmm. I think, you know, just, we were speaking earlier about him doing standup comedy, which we will talk about, but yeah. I just think you've got so much wi vibe.

Thank you. 

Um, but also I'm very interested in, you know, your journey as a creative. 

Mm. 

Um, 'cause currently you are navi, I mean, you work fulltime or part-time, ah, 

four days a week. 

Four days a week. But is it, is part-time? It's part-time. Yeah. It's part-time. Yeah. Um, but actually I, I'd love to hear your journey, um, coming up to that, that point where you started working part-time.

Mm. 

Um, and, and how you've, how you've experienced, you know, working part-time and also building what you build on the side as well. 

Okay. So, 

yeah, just a bit of that context. 

How, how far do you want me to go back? Um, 

maybe like, maybe a year bef like where were you a year before you this? Yes. 

Oh, okay. Um, 

and then coming into, you know, obviously them working lot creative journey.

And the reason why I ask, just to give you context that, 'cause I think that a lot of people obviously like are, um, a lot of students are looking for jobs mm-hmm. And are unemployed and, you know, even find a part job time jobs is tough. Mm-hmm. So full-time roles and stuff like that. So just to kind of give them like a sense of how you got into this role and being in a role that actually aligns your strengths and your experience and your brand 

and mm-hmm.

How, yeah, how good it's been. You know, the good, the bad, the younger. 

Okay. Um, yeah. So less, less, so this was year two of my masters. So I did, um, a placement year for my masters and my undergraduate mainly just because, like, apart from like getting experience, I also didn't know what I wanted to do post uni.

So I was just like, cool, I'll just do it. And then I also did uni back to back. So I started uni in 2017 and then graduated 2023 for my masters. Mm-hmm. Um, and I was, so pick up the, I had started in the final year of my undergraduate. Um, but it was, because we were still in COVID, it was like usually online recording, so it wasn't really like affecting anything.

'cause like, where could I go? Um, so we were doing stuff online and it was working and also I was doing it with like three of my friends as well. So we would all like, join Zoom calls. We would then record and they were also at uni, so I kind of worked. And then as, uh, so they were. Two years above me. So they were in their masters when we first met, and then one of them left, and then another one was just about to finish his masters.

So both of them had left by the end, like by the time I started my masters. Yeah. Um, and then, yeah, so I did, first year was doing, still doing recordings. I did a mix of like in person and online. Uh, my friends were just like, life's kind of gotten busy, wanted to even move to Cambridge. So I was like, cool, I'll just take on doing the recordings.

And they were like, look, don't worry. Like it's your baby. Anyways, so just like, if you need us, let us know. So 

you started your podcast recorders whilst you were at uni? 

Yeah, so I was, yeah, literally. And I tell people, like, the reason why I loved it was 'cause uh, Bruno had a paid Zoom account, so like I could let that, yeah.

So they, so they, so it was supposed to be used for like uni stuff. Uh, but I was like, oh, cool, I'm gonna maximise this the whole time. Yeah. Yay. Um, so yeah, literally I'd just do recordings. People would be like, ah, you know, is there like a an hour limit? Well, we have to. I was like, nah, man, like Brunel, I'm using Bruno's account, like Bruno will paying for this.

Um, and they was like, great. Um, so then what happened was, uh, I did my master, when I went to do my masters, I worked at the university. Uh, so both my undergrad and my masters was working at the university. My undergrad was specifically, uh, that workshop thing, so like going into schools, teaching them STEM subjects, doing these interactive workshops.

Uh, but then again, that kind of, so I did like maybe three or four months of that. And then COVID hit, so then it was all remote and online and it was a adjustment. And then my master's one was I, for my undergrad course, I, and like a few others, I was helping them to basically find placements for their undergrad students.

So it was, uh, environmental sciences, sports sciences, life sciences and biomed. So I would look for companies. Uh, so I would, so that's why like when people say like, uh, people sometimes will ask me about like, job related stuff and I'm just like, oh, I've had to like find platforms and stuff where to find jobs and like I've like reviewed cvs or like had to see like what students should think about through the, that role.

Um, and yeah, so while I was doing that role, and that was a full-time role. Yeah. I was also still doing pickup the mic. I was still doing the recordings. So, and like, I'm a, like, I look back on it and it was the wildest thing ever, but it worked, I guess. Uh, so I would do like nine, let's say. Like, uh, 'cause like I didn't live near Bruno.

It was like maybe like 9 45 till like five 30 

Yeah. 

Of work then. 

And, and remember what the job was again. 

Uh, it was the, uh, helping students to find placements. 

So you, were you working with the university? 

So, no, I worked for the university. Oh, 

so you, so you were working for Bruno? 

Yeah, so I was working for 

Bruno.

Oh, so you're a Bruno employee. 

I was an employee and a student at the same time. And yeah, it was an interesting experience. Yeah, it was interesting 'cause like you got all the accesses. So I had two passes, so I had like all the accesses, like staff and then I could also do all the stuff as a student. Um, but, but then it was like funny 'cause like I was trying to get, still get Hayed.

Did 

people's results outta the back in the back? 

Nah, I couldn't see their results, but I could see their cv, like I could see their cvs. You 

cv. Oh yeah. 'cause it was like employment. 

Yeah. But nah, I went interested, like, yeah. And this was like, obviously like AI's not new, but like, this was when like you more and more uni students were like using it for stuff.

So when I tell you they were like, cover letters. So I worked with someone. Yeah, there were cover letters where like the person didn't adjust it, so it was like, oh, I'm applying for insert job title. 

Jesus 

insert. So, yeah, so, so me and the, the person I worked with, we were reviewing these cvs and she was so, she, it was funny.

She helped me in my undergrad. Um, so even that interview was like, I've always had like interesting interview experiences. So, uh, that was. I wanna say either my third or fourth interview that I've ever done. Um, and it was my current, uh, so through my masters, the person who was supposed to help me with my placements, the other person on the panel was someone who helped me get my placement for my undergrad.

So I'd worked with her a lot. And then it was a deputy, the other person was a deputy director for that department. Mm-hmm. But he had heard of me, so all three of them knew me. And then, like the person I worked with, she was like, yeah. I'm like, I'm not like, obviously like I'm here, I don't need to introduce myself.

She was like, look, does it like, it's cool, like, just answer the questions. And then afterwards she was just like, yeah, I already knew you could do the job. Like this was just generally a formality. Um, even my first interview, anyway, we're going off top. Even my first interview, like, it was funny. So, um, I like, like you said, like I'm usually like, I'm a happy, cheerful person.

I didn't think much of this. Um, but my manager was on the interview panel. Yeah. She was like, oh, it's been a long day. Yeah. She wasn't sure she'd find anyone. And then I was the last, I didn't know I was the last interview, the last interview you 

brought us here. 

So she said she walked out and she was like, ah, gosh, she is another one.

And then she said like, oh, as soon as I saw her, I, when I tell you I don't remember this, she was just like, you just smiled. And then you gave me a handshake. And I just felt like, wow. She supposed to, like, she really brought another, she was breast and she was just like, she, she was like, if I could have just offered you like the job, then I, she was just like, I would've, I would've done.

Really? Yeah. So she was just like, in the interview, she was like, I don't need to, she was like, I, I generally was just like, okay, let's, like, he was like, he's a strong candidate already, but I wanna see like what else he brings. So it was funny 'cause she was like, oh, they would, I think one of the tasks was, oh, how would you like promote STEM activities in different schools and stuff?

And I was like, oh, well, you know. Um, drew my, um, my, my A levels in secondary school, I actually did, uh, a, I didn't go to Brunell, but I did a STEM week of activities at St. George's University. And I was like, I was not interested in biomed, but I really wanted to learn about that industry and like gain knowledge and skills.

So I like, oh, I knew. I basically was just like, this is what went well from that experience. Yeah. And this is what went bad and this is why I know like, if we were to do it, Brune, these are the different things. So she was just like, oh, so you, did 

you practise that as well? 

No. 

You just said it. 

No, literally.

Just naturally. 'cause I was like, oh. 'cause they were just like, yeah, just pitch, like how you would organise stuff. And I was like, oh, well I know from like personal experience, you need to sort out accommodation. You need to sort out like food for them during the day. You need to partner up with lecturers so you can be aware of like what's happening.

Um, but I was also just like, it can't just be like people talking to them the whole time. You need to make it interactive and fun. Right. You need some demonstrations. You need to showcase like the cool parts of stem because people will come in with their own perceptions. That's crazy. Uh, and yeah, that's the, and still to this day, this is the fastest I've ever heard back on an interview on the way home.

I got a call and it was just like, so we'd love to offer you the role. I love that. Um. Are you interested? And then I basically, so my, my manager was like, oh. So I told her, oh, I'd actually applied for like a summer one too. So when I called her back and was just like, look, I've got some news. She thought I was gonna reject it.

She was like, oh no, she's gonna say no. And I was like, no, I'm ha I still wanna really wanna do this, but I just can't start at the date you want me to because like, I've got this summer one and I was like, the summer one is kind of linked more to my degree than this one is. I was like, if you're happy to move it Options.

Yeah. I was like, if you're happy to move the start date and we can do this a year, like I can start in September and we can do it for a year from September. That would be amazing. She was like, look, I'm gonna do everything that I can because really we would love to have you. And I was like, I'd love to work with you two.

What, 

what made you, like, what gave you the confidence at that time? 'cause you know, at this time mm-hmm. You're still a student. 

Mm-hmm. 

Um, other students or like other people might have been like really, really nervous about going back and like trying to adjust. Like, should I just not do the summer internship and blah, blah, blah.

But what, what made you feel confident? Or, or like how did you have that confidence to be able to say, listen, you know, I could do this for you, but I have this thing that I'm doing. Like, what was the, what mindset did you have? 

I think it was like my, I think it was like support from my family and they were just like, the worst case they're gonna say is no.

And it's like, even if they do say no, like it's not the end of the world. Like, they were just like, you'll just find another one. 

Well, you worried about it. Like, 

I think not really. Like, I think my manager was like clear to me that, um, the person who ended up being my manager was like really adamant to that.

She wanted me for the role and I was like, look, unless there's like an absolute like no moving on the date, that's it. Um, and then she was like, actually no, I think this will make more sense because, uh, like she came up with all the like proof of why it would work and all of that stuff. Um, but yeah, literally I was just like, if, if it can happen, that would be amazing.

I understand that like, you know, you, I didn't mention this in the interview, but I was just like, I wasn't offered the summer internship when like, I was, I think it was maybe like a day or two after she called me that I then got the summer internship as well and I was, and then she was like, actually, you know what, I kind of agree.

'cause I told her like, look, I'm at this stage. And I was like, I would love to do this. My parents, do you just want me to do this one? 'cause they feel like this will, this is actually linked to my degree. Yeah. And she was like, oh no, I completely get that. She was like, it's, it's, this is more like, this one is good, you'll still get experience.

She's like, the other one is definitely more related to your degree. Yeah. Um, so she was saying afterwards, like she would, she was like adamant that if there is any way we can make it work, and she was like, I've got a case. I can prove that. Like if we do it, if he starts, then it would actually make more beneficial.

Like it's more beneficial. Um, because I think I joined just when the new academic year had started anyway, so she was like, actually it makes more sense because we'll slowly be getting schools in so he can like build up his knowledge. He's not kind of thrown into the deep end just really 

support like they, they wanted you and they were also very supportive of your, your journey.

And I think that's something that. Again, when you have very clear value. 

Mm. 

Uh, like, you know, it is clear, like you understood the mission. Yeah. You understood what they were looking for. 

Mm-hmm. 

Um, and you also came across confidence, so to speak. Um, that, that's really clear. And I wanted to kind of like go to like where, you know, how did you get into, into Summerset?

Yeah. 

Like, and, and, and was it, you know, did you start off full-time then go to part-time? Mm-hmm. Or Yeah. What was that journey like? 

So, uh, so yeah, so with that other job, I would do the working day and then I would sometimes do like two or one recordings, like after work, which is wild. Uh, 'cause bear in mind, all of these recordings mostly took place at Bruno.

So I would basically fi and I didn't live, it took me like an hour to get back and the Metropolitan Line is notoriously known for like, sometimes cancelling, like all of this stuff. So I would do, so I would do the recording. Mm-hmm. So I'd do work then maybe from like five 30 to six, uh, 30, I would do one or try to do one recording.

And then from six 30 to like seven 30, I would then do like, yeah. I'd then do another. 'cause I was just like, I just need content. So I'd then do another recording and then I'd be like, cool, seven 30 onwards I'm going home. Um, and then thankfully I didn't have to be like, it was a, I would only work Mondays and Fridays.

Sorry, Mondays and Thursdays in the office. So I was like, cool, even if I do stay late, I can get a bit of a lion and a bit of a chill day the next day. Um, but yeah, so I was doing that and then it was coming towards the, so I basically could have stayed on if I wanted to at the university. Okay. Um, but just due to different reasons, I was like, actually I want to, I wanna move.

I was like, it's been great. But I was also just like, outside of the stuff that happened with my job, I was like, I've been here at the university. That would've been, if I stayed till that September, it would've been almost six years at the university. 

Six 

years. Yeah. And also, yeah. And also, 'cause I did my placement there as well.

So basically I was like, I've actually just like stayed within this. Yeah. So like, 

I thought you were gonna say like one year, 

six years? No, because I did, I did four, so I did, because I did a placement year for my undergrad and masters. Okay. That makes it four years for the undergrad, two years for the masters.

And then, yeah, like, because I said, um, like I said, 'cause I did the place because even the more thing was because I did the placement year there. Yeah. I, for both of them, I basically stayed in the university's like ecosystem that whole time. Yeah. If I did a placement somewhere else, technically I still would've been there for six years, but I was like, I've actually been here so long that there's different, like I know quite a lot of people in different departments and all of this and all of that.

So I was like, to me personally, I was like, it feels also like an a, a a stage where like I need to just go and develop. Um, so I was like looking for jobs, applying for stuff. Uh, and then, so before this job I had PIs interviewed. What year was this? This was 2023. Okay. So literally like my graduation was coming up.

Uh, maybe like four or five months. Um, it was, so I applied for another job. I got interviewed, uh, selected for the role, got the contract. And this is why I always say you should read your contract. Oh. Um, 'cause basically they, they had a clause in their contract that was just like anything, any work that I do, even as I, outside of work that is relevant to my job or like links to my job, they, they would own the IP for.

And I was like, oh, I've got this. Like, it was a podcasting job. And I was like, you, so I was like, so I've gotta pick up the mic. We're not technically a registered company at this time. Um, yeah. Um, I was like, so could you remove this? Because like, like, because I was like, like, we're, we're like, we're gonna lose, we're gonna lose, pick up the mic.

And they were just like, oh, no, no, no. This is, 

could you remove this because Yes, 

hundred percent. Because I was like, look, like I love pick up the mic. I'm not gonna like lose it over. Like, and also I think the main reason was the role was a trainee podcast role, which like, I don't know, people may say I'm boosting my own hold.

I would say like, I was overqualified 'cause I'd done all this podcast and stuff anyways. I knew about different equipment. I'd rented out different podcast studios, so I knew what I was doing. So like, even if they were just like, hit the ground running, I could do it. I mainly to know their systems and stuff, but I was like, I edit myself.

I've used the, like literally similar to the equipment here. I was like, I know what I'm doing. And they were just like, oh yeah. Um, it's something we have in all employees contracts, like we can't remove it. And I was like, if you can't remove it, I can't take this job. Um, 'cause I was like, it's, it's been great.

Uh, the training thing was also only for a year, so I was like, even if I took it, it's only for a year and then I'm out. 

Yeah. 

Um, so yeah, I was just like, yeah, I'm so sorry. I can't, I can't take this wrong. 

You asked what was the salary for that role? Do you remember? 

Ah, I don't remember, but it couldn't have been, couldn't have been like a lot.

Like, it probably, it was definitely was a lot less than the, probably the same, which is wild. Probably either a bit more or the same as like doing my like, oh no, not this role. Yeah. Like three days a week. And that was five days. And you'd either work, I wanna say 12 to eight or nine to five, because basically, um, you'd, if you were gonna man the studio Yeah.

You'd basically do the later slot of the recordings. So you'd start later, but finish later. The only reason why I was like interested was 'cause it's literally like down the road from where I live. So I was like, oh, like can I, I'd save on travel, technically, lunch I would also save on, 'cause I could just rock up home, get lunch.

Um, and I was like, worst case scenario, if I wanna bring my own stuff, like, I don't know, if I'm bored at work and I wanna grab stuff, it's super easy to just like go home and grab something. Or like, if I'm like, oh, I'll bring one of my siblings into the space, I can just do that. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I was just like, yeah, I can't, I can't accept this.

So then I, this role came up, which was like part-time, three days a week, was supporting this programme at Somerset House and I was like, cool, I'll apply. 

Is it like a contract initially? 

Yeah. So it was, um, four years and I was like, yeah, a four year contract. A four year contract. Wow. Uh, I was like, I've never seen that before.

I've never, 

yeah. 

I, I did see one the other day, four years. I said, oh, I'm not by there. He's like four years like. Might change my mind in four years. Mm-hmm. You're not, obviously, you're not title No, of 

course. 

Yeah. But, but yeah. Interesting. But let continue. It's a four year contract. 

Four year contract, three 

days a week, three 

days a week, days a week, part-time.

So I was like, cool, let me apply. Um, so I applied for it. I got interviewed. Um, so with the first interview, I didn't know. Well, now I know, but I didn't know at the time. Um, so the two people that interviewed me, one of them is, uh, was the head of the coworking space, uh, that the programme was based at, and the other one was the partner of the programme that, uh, that I would be supporting.

Okay. Um, so when I'm doing the interviews, like a typical interview questions, I'm like, uh, I can't engage. I feel like it's going well. I'm getting some smiles, so, but I'm like, you never know. Um, and then the partner of the programme, and he knows the story. I mentioned this when he was even on this podcast, and I say it every time and I talk about my job.

He was like, during the interview, he like, I'm so sorry to like stop things. I've got like this question that's been like eating me up. He starts like, could you explain to me like why, why did you like apply for this role? 'cause your, your background and your experience, like, you are very much like you've got an academic background, your science.

Like I did, uh, my master's was in sustainability, entrepreneurship, and design. My undergrad was in environmental sciences. So it was like, you've got more of like a sciencey background and I don't see any like business or like, stuff around that. And I was like, oh, I think, well, I, I answered it the best I could.

I was like, well, actually I feel like I do. I was like given my connections through like pick up the mic. I've been able to like, I was just like, it's a programme that supports black businesses. I'm a black founder who's trying to run a business. So I clearly understand both the problem and the solution that this programme is trying to address.

Mm-hmm. And I was like, I'm someone who's like, been in these spaces. I've like, I've applied for funding. I know like the difficulties that these founders are going through. Yeah. And I was just like, I've seen, like, essentially I was just like, my lived experience is what's gonna make this well? Because I was like, I could say, oh, I've done like three years of programme.

And I also mentioned like, I've done stuff like, you know, I've got the skills and excel and all of that. Um, all of it like necessities. But I was just like, I could, like there are programmes where people don't know, like the struggles of a business founder. 'cause I was like, if someone reaches out to me and says, oh, you know, I've been really trying to find a venue for an event.

I don't have a budget. This is that. If you don't understand what it means. So you've got this cool event idea. You don't have budget to put on the event and you're struggling to do it and you're trying to apply for funding. You're trying to find free venue space. Um, I was like, I know what that's like.

I've organised events of different scales. Um, so I was like, I understand what that means and I can help offer solutions to either my connections, my lived experience or other stuff. Yeah. Whereas if I didn't have that, that would work. And he was like, cool. Interesting answer. Now after that interview ends, I'm like, I think it went well, but I don't know if I got the job.

Uh, and then I got invited back to a second interview. Where the, 

how many interviews, man? 

Two, two. Two. So thankfully two I've heard, I've heard like, yeah. '

cause all these interview processes, 

it's long 

assessments online, uh, gymnastics. 

Mm-hmm. Uh, I've heard, uh, like there's someone I know who does like, who she does like finance.

She was just like 10. She, she, she was involved in the 10 interviews. I was like, 

five processes 

after 10 after 10 steps to get the job. I was like, that is what, not even like, oh, she, she's a di when I tell you it's like midlevel maybe like just below midlevel. 10 steps. 10 steps. Yeah. I was just like, couldn't be me after step five.

I'll be like, you either want me or you don't. 

It's that peace out y'all. Because 

Yeah. I was just like, most of the interviews I've done have been two and I've never, 

it used to be two back in the day. 

Yeah. 

I think back in the day. Yeah. Right. It used to be one interview. It just used to be one. They just, yeah.

It's just like one at like at the beginning of the day. At the end of the day, they'll, who you? But now I don't, the, the, the, the, the interview step like two, I think three is like, kind like a nice maximum, you know? 'cause they want you to meet their team, like the, like initial hiring manager. 

Mm-hmm. 

Then you know, you have your assessment.

Mm-hmm. 

And then obviously you have your, your meet the team. Mm-hmm. I think we should stop there. 

No, a hundred percent. I don't. I 

I don't, I think you just end it there guys. Let's leave it alone. Like the extended interview process and it's time consuming. No, a hundred percent for all parties involved.

Give your CEO, even the, the up people in your team. Mm-hmm. They have work to do. 

Mm-hmm. 

The work that you are paying them to do that. And now you've invited them into a, a, a 54th state interview now. Mm-hmm. That they, they can't work. 

And then like, even with that, so like I had to, so with this role, no one in, no one, um, I think only like my close friends knew that I was like applying for stuff.

So I was like, I'm also now trying to like balance this with that, like, with work. So I was like, oh, I need to like, I'm not taking days off. But thankfully like this, like I've seen ones where they're just like, you need to come in person. So I was like, cool, I'm gonna have to take like the morning off or like do a half day, do this, do that.

Um, but yeah, so I applied for this. I got this 

stroke. Your second. You had your second? 

Yeah, I had my second interview. Interview went well, maybe like a day or two afterwards. I then got offered the job. Nice. Um, so then, yeah, I was just like, cool. And then it was like you said, like, it's funny how things work out.

So I think I got offered the job in end of June. 

Yes. 

So I put, I got the contract. 

This is your second role out of uni. 

Ish. Like 

second, 

maybe like third or, well, no, this is technically fourth. 'cause Yeah, I did the summer internship did, well, my placement from my undergrad. 

No internship? No, I, 

no, no placement.

No placement. Ah. And technically this is my first job out of uni. 

Oh, okay. 

Okay, 

good. Yeah. I, the reason why I'm emphasising that is because, again, like for people who are coming out of uni 

Yeah. 

The, the, the, the types of the, the process that it takes to actually land control. 

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. 

Um, and how, and just to lightly touch on this, how like internships are really valuable 

mm-hmm.

Where possible 

mm-hmm. 

To get onto, I mean, I, I did my internship when I got my first, so I, I did drama at university, studied drama at university, and, um, hated that, hated that so much. It was so theory based. I wanted to, I would perform 

in 

my class. 

Okay. 

So good. Okay. It looked stupid. That's how dead the course was.

Like I'd perform, like, I'd give it all the vim, like I'd, you know, do like a performance. 

Yeah. 

Like, you know, when they give you examples. 

Yeah. 

I'd do a performance and I'd be so good. 

Yeah. That 

it felt like I was overdoing it. 

Oh no.

So I was like, this course is so sad now. Like it was such a deaf course. Anyway, MDM was a a, a good university attend. It was fun. Um, but anyways, to my point, is that big drama? 

Mm-hmm. 

And, and, and I was on one of, see this, the significance of like, you know, some of the work that you do in the courses, right?

Mm-hmm. 

So, you know, I was on a course, it was, the course was with, um, catch 22. Yeah. No catch 22. Oh, nice. So it's helping like under-privileged, um, underrepresented, um, like creators, creatives. 

Mm-hmm. Creatives, 

um, and young people. And um, and it was, so it was catch 22 in collaboration with the national Theatre.

This was back in 2012. 

Wow. 

Um, and so I was one of the young people in the programme and I basically, you know, with the national theatre, they did this like, um, this workshop that was about like presentation. Mm-hmm. And public speaking. Right. At the time, ccia, you know, we were talking earlier about networking.

Mm-hmm. The power of networking, having conversations. I didn't know, obviously when you are fresh outta uni, you don't know how you are placed in the world. Mm-hmm. How you add value. You don't, you just don't know, like 

mm-hmm. 

How are these adults gonna listen to me? Mm. Do you know what I mean? Like, you see yourself as a, like a juvenile.

Like, and you are going into the world of work of profession. Mm-hmm. How is this middle aged white man, or how is this like black woman or you know, all these like senior people, how are they gonna take me seriously when I don't know nothing? Do you know what I mean? Which is why, you know, the, these courses and these programmes that you're doing are so, so important and relevant because that's what helped me get my own first role.

Right. So doing that programme with catch 22 and mingling with like the national things and stuff. 'cause we had to like deliver, um, a workshop. Um, no, no, that's like, we had to deliver a presentation as a part of the workshop. Okay. And it was helping us with like, um, you know, making eye contact, body language, you know, presenting.

And at that time I couldn't even make eye contact. I didn't even know what to say. I am like so shy. I was like, don't look at me. Um, anyway, it was through that programme that, um, you know, after that programme had done, I saw a job role at the national theatre and then they were like, um, I applied for it and then I applied for it and then I messaged the person that was on the course with, and I was like, oh, by the way, there's this role at the national theatre.

I feel like it could be like something I can do. They were like, oh yeah, sure. So she referred me internally, see, see relationships because you were, remember you were talking about your university and how you've worked with them before. 

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Do you get what I mean? And they knew you already.

Mm-hmm. And because of those, that relationship you had with them, it was a straight in. And the way the job market is so competitive right now. Mm-hmm. You have to, relationships are so, come off your phone, come off your phone and connect with people because when you build that trust, it helps you get through doors and quicker.

Do you what I mean, I feel like that's been your journey. Yeah. Um, and it's been mine as well. And that's how I landed my first, first role. 

Mm. 

And yeah. And I think, um, with where you are at right now, it's just really nice to like really refreshing to hear, um, that you've honestly just been. Like in, in the path.

Mm-hmm. And because a lot of people I think will, you know, they wanna stay on the path like you, like, you know, like you can still do a job that's still related to what you do because sometimes people have to, they're afraid of branching out. So, so my question is actually 

mm-hmm. 

If people aren't finding roles mm-hmm.

That directly relate to what it is that they wanna do. Mm-hmm. So if they're coming out of, you know, maybe creative careers mm-hmm. Um, or other careers, but they're not finding jobs that directly link to what it is that they studied or what they actually want to 

do, 

what would you suggest or what need to recommend?

Uh, I mean, the classical thing everyone says, which is true, but it's cliche, is, uh, like transferrable skills. So like, find a role that is, uh, like, I don't know if you want to, like you said, if you want to learn about like marketing and you are applying to market, uh, you are applying for marketing roles within, I don't know, like big brands and it's not working.

Find ones with other companies, organisations that are maybe a bit smaller scale, but you can still have a lot of impact with those roles. Uh, so that would be the first thing. I think the second thing is, like you said, it's like you have to get out there to like apply for stuff. So it wasn't even like by, like you said, like it was, so with this role in the interview, they are, one of the things I had to do was pick an organ.

So they have a showcase event and it was like, pick an organisation and talk about like how you would like, encourage them to think about that. And it was just by chance that one of, so we have a gaming podcast and one of the businesses who I interviewed for that gaming podcast before I got this job was on this programme.

So we spoke briefly about the programme as a part of one of the questions. And they spent, they spoke about what it is and how they found it and stuff like that. So I was just, I didn't even remember it came to the point where I was like looking through doing the practising for the activity and I was like, oh, cool.

So in the interview I mentioned it, I was like, oh, well, you know, one of the organisations that we think would be really great to highlight is this one. 

Yeah. 

The reason why is because, you know, after interviewing them on our podcast, we really learn a bit more about this to this, that, that, and I was like, that's a cool way to shape showcase and say we've already built a relationship Yeah.

With an organisation that's here. So I think, like you said, like it is really about like going into a place as a networking, but I've also, like I was saying before with like networking event, you don't have to go to like a networking event to network. Um, perfect example I'd say is that I met someone at an anime boat party.

And he was telling me he's got this business. I then went to one of his events and then I told him, oh, like I actually work on a programme that sports black businesses. I know that you do anime events. Um, and I was like, anime, I would argue you are in the creative industries, but I was like, look, apply for this programme.

You never know what's gonna happen. It may be of interest. He applied, he got on. Um, I tell people, and four people think that Jeffrey's got like nepotism. Um, I make abundantly care to people. I don't get involved. If I know you, I I'm not interviewing you. I'm probably, I avoid like reviewing your application as much as possible.

So I it can be no one's like, oh, so and so got in because of this or that. Um, so yeah, when I saw his name, I didn't even know that he had applied. So I saw his name. Like my manager was like, yeah, 

what? He applied for a job here? 

He applied for the programme. 

Oh, 

for programme. 

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because, and you'd met him from, 

so literally I was told my manager, I was like, yeah, sorry, I can't be in this interview.

Like, I know this guy. Um, and she was like, oh no, that's cool. That don't worry. And then he got on the programme and then from that he like built up his business. He's kind of trying, like he transitioned, he's doing new things. Wow. But literally like what you said, like he wouldn't have gotten in this programme if we didn't meet at, at anime event.

Now did it did, was it a networking event? No. Did we like, have it 

is like 

exactly, exactly. Common interest. Um, so I tell people like, really think about that because you never know, like your next, like, I don't know, like investor or your next, like, like you said, like community collaborator or partner, um, even your brand connections.

So, um, you may just go to an event, you may just like do stuff, even if it's like a networking event, you may ask like a really interesting question. Yeah. Um, yeah, you never know what could come from that. Um, so like for example, uh, I don't, like you said about not knowing when this episode comes out, I'm gonna say it.

And technically if this episode comes out prior to me saying this, then I'm gonna need to cut this out before we launch it. Um, but one of the things we're gonna be launching, we pick up the mic, is we want to launch a affordable, like a subsidised rental equipment hire scheme. So, uh, so through this accelerator I was on earlier this year, we came with the idea, we planned it out.

So I've been like teasing it like lightly in different places. So we did the pitch night went really well. A lot of people in the audience liked it. They connected with it. So I was like, great. So through all these different events that I've been going through, some of them like organised at my workplace and they've maybe had like open calls for people to like, share what they're doing.

Yeah. I was like, oh, cool, I'm just gonna like talk about it here. Um, so my third thing would be, even if you are in a job that isn't necessarily linked to like an area of your interest or stuff like that, don't feel like job you and like creative or like anything you do outside of work, a technically separate entities.

So, you know, you, I'm not, I'm not saying like. You know, it's always relevant to bring those two together. Yeah. But you know, if they're like, oh, you know, um, like I said, oh, we're looking for people to do like activities for like our work. You know, our next, um, oh, I gotta say work Christmas party, but I'm not talking about Christmas.

Our next work, social, we're looking for someone to do like a, an activity that we can connect and, you know, you want to get into like workshop facilitation and like doing creative things. Shout out. Um, the person that I know here who does paint and sips, she just briefly mentioned, oh, I do painting. Sips.

Would love to do one for the community here. She's done about maybe three or four. If you came to our Christmas party last year, she, she was the one who did the sip and paint. 

I did.

That's fine. 

How you coming this year? Coming? Well, actually, well you'll come to, anyway, we'll talk about our five year event, um, which probably would've happened at this point, but you, you'll invited to that as well. Okay. Um, but yeah, no, it's just like, I would say it's those few things. It's really about like getting out there and like, um, and sorry, the final thing I would say the fourth thing would be if you are doing something.

Yeah. And it's not necessarily like you, like you said, like you can't find a job that fits into that. 

Yeah. 

Um, I've just been like, just create it yourself. Um, because like I, so I generally also forgot that I did this and technically at some point when I have the head capacity, I'll go back to it, but, but there's like, so there's two, so one of them I do know, um, and the other one that I forgot is something else, but the one I forgot was I did, so when I was working in this STEM organisation, like maybe a few months in, so my manager asked me, what do you want to do as like an objective?

And I said, I want to like, bring on like a big scale event. 

Yeah. 

So she was like, okay, well what are you thinking? And I was like, well, I'm still, so I was like, you said, like being a staff and a student, I was like, oh, I'm the president or chair of the Environmental Science Society. Yeah. And I'd like, I'd love to do like a conference or like some, like an evening activity for people to connect with businesses, learn more about different organisations.

Yeah. Do fun stuff. And she was like, okay, cool. Let's, let's do it. So I then basically came up with this proposal. It was called Innovators of the Future. It was all around this idea of like different societies and organisations like pitching and sharing their knowledge and all of this stuff and courses.

So I reached out to all the societies, like, uh, like academic societies within stem or like, uh, so whether they were Yeah. And reached out to academic societies. Mm-hmm. Then I reached out to like my head of, uh, I reached out to my course, I reached out to other relevant courses and like their, like professors and, um, doctoral researchers and got them to speak and then reached out to like external organisations that I didn't connect, like I didn't have connections with and was like, I'm putting on this event.

Um, and yeah, like it went really well. Like we, we had like a good attendance. People connected. Yeah. And that like, for the longest time, my LinkedIn headshot was me of like speaking at a podium and it was from that event. Oh. Um, but yeah, I was like, okay, cool. I wanna create a conference. Why don't I just do it?

Um, 'cause I see all the conferences that I put on and I'm like, sometimes I'm a bit, they're a bit dry. I boring. So I was like, why don't I just do it myself? Um, even with the podcasting, like, uh, you know, I do, I'm, I tell people I don't have a audio background. I didn't work on a podcast before. Yeah. I wouldn't really tell I was interested in podcasts before doing this.

Um, but yeah, I was just like, it would be good to have a space where people can learn, connect, develop, do all of this stuff. So my biggest thing would be like, if you don't see it, 

yeah. 

Create it and it's never gonna go right the first time. Yeah. But what you do is you create it and then you learn. Yeah.

Because I can now say I've put on like. At least I put on that conference, I put on like two fashion shows through another thing I was doing. Um, I put on like multiple events through pick up the mic of different scales. Um, but now that's like a clear proof of concept. So when I go into interviews, that's my like, unique thing that I say.

So I'm like, oh, like when I graduated, I was applying, or I, before I graduated even for this job, I was just like, oh yeah. So I am a, you know, I'm currently an envir a, a master's student studying this. Mm-hmm. But I mentioned, oh, actually outside of work, oh, outside my degree, uh, and my placement, I'm also developing this thing called pick up the mic, which is this.

I was like, I've also had experience in like a venture curation through this as well. 

So I, I was gonna say actually that, um, one of the things that really stands out to me from your conversation, and this is specifically for, um, you know, founders as well, because I think there's actually a lot of founders that feel unemployable.

Mm. 

Because they are founders. Mm-hmm. And because they build built something. And when employers look at that mm-hmm. They feel like, why are you stepping into this world or space of like, you know, full-time employment, nevermind that, you know, we got built, you know, they've my that. Um, but it's, it's quite common actually.

And I think how you navigated that conversation, um, you know, to amplify why you qualify to be in this space because he, you, you know, you could have been like, well 

you 

founder, you've got all this experience. And I think a lot of people really experienced, like, really struggled with that, is like, they are founders.

They have built and failed at business, and now they wanna, they wanna pay the bills, but child don't let it happen because you feel that they are over. Do you know what I mean? Hundred percent. And I think the fact that you were able to sit in the conviction of actually I am great for this role because I resonate with your target audience.

I understand their pain points and what, do you know what I mean? Understand. And so that's just to kind of like encourage, um, you know, people who are building things that, you know, there are ways to communicate your, what value you bring and your, your process and journey 

mm-hmm. 

In a way that is relevant to employers.

And, and I think that's really cool. Um, my last question Yes. Is, um, what is something that you have like at a TV show 

mm-hmm. 

Or an event 

mm-hmm. 

Or an experience that you've watched or experienced recently Mm. That inspired you? Mm 

mm Recently? Hmm. 

Do you go out? 

Uh, no. I'm like, now I'm like witch off. 

Or it could be like a tv.

No, I could, I could do, I could do an event. I could do an event. Uh, it's funny because it's 

not your, your event. 

No, it's not mine. It's not mine. It's not mine. It's one of the, from one of the businesses that, um, I support here. 

Okay. 

Uh, and basically, so the event was called the Bragging Circle. So it was all around this idea that like, um, as cre, so it's in, in line with like our World Africa Day.

And it was all around this idea that like, as we as creators, we are very much like, oh no, we don't really like shout from the rooftops about what we do. Um, and we don't like the idea of being like, oh, I do this or I do that, or I've created this cool thing, or I've got this much like grant funding or stuff like that.

Yeah. So the whole idea is, uh, she collaborate with the other organisation and she basically brought people together to basically like, basically brag about their work. So she has a platform, it's called Newcomer. She will be on, I dunno if the episode would've released, but she's gonna be on, on one of the podcasts we do here.

Newcomer. 

I on newcomer. 

Yeah. It was Natalie, 

um, yay. High five. Oh yeah. About talking at events. 

Oh yeah. So literally she, so she, she brought everyone in and it was like, okay, cool. So everyone has to write down like one thing they've done in the last couple of months that they're proud of. Then we're gonna put it in this like bowl.

We're gonna read it out and people need to guess who it is. Um, and it was funny 'cause I guess like everyone was just like, it was one of those ones where you're trying to guess like, 

so you guess who it is? 

Yeah. You guess who it is and then the person reveals themselves and be like, ah, it was me. Um, and I liked that because it was like two key things that I liked about that event.

I was like, one, it is also an interesting way, 'cause obviously at any event you're not gonna get to speak to everyone, but it was like hearing what people had done and like gotten that they were proud of was really nice. And like, um, so like some people just like, oh, so like, it was so, and I liked that it ranged 'cause it wasn't so, like, for myself, I said, I've got my first like, grant funding this year.

That was great. For others, they were just like, oh, I've gone back to the gym. Like, and I've been consistent. I was like, that's great. Other people, it was like, oh, you know, um, I think one person she performed as a part of like a orchestra or as a part of a group at the Royal Abbo Hall and was just like, this is her third year of doing it.

But she did that as a cool celebration. So it was interesting to see like everyone's different achievement and then also like trying to match it up to people in the room. Um, but then also, like, she gave everyone the space to like, brag about something that they were proud of so they could do like a talk and it was like, okay, you can talk about like whatever you want for a couple of minutes.

Uh, I need to actually check with her if I can post the, pick up the mic on. Um, and if you see any footage from that talk, uh, I will, she doesn't know that I'm doing this, but I'm gonna use this to promote my own services. Uh, she used one of our cameras, uh, to record the talk, so if you wanna rent one of these cameras, uh, let me know.

Um, but yeah, no, uh, so. 

It's a plug for me. No, 

appreciate. Well, thank you very much. Um, but yeah, no, literally it was, it was that, and I think it was like giving, like giving people the space to like brag about their stuff and also then to share. 'cause there were people in the room and, uh, one of them was another business on the programme.

She was like, I've never really like done a live pitch about my business. And she was like, yes. It wasn't necessarily like, I'm pitching for funding or I'm pitching to investors. She was like, to even talk to a room of people that most of them probably don't know me or don't know my business and to share it.

And then you're getting people turn up and be like, okay, cool. Like, I love what you said up there. We need to connect because of X, Y, and Z. 

Because pitching can be quite pitching 

in 

yourself. Very early stages. 

Mm. It 

can be very scary hundred. It's very intimidating hundred. It's like 67. Give me a bit. I'm like, I'm like shrinking and disintegrating.

But doing that in that capacity where like, it's, it's chill, it's creative, it's engaging. I love it. Yeah. 

I love that. 

Well, congratulations. Oh, thank you very much. I have done my first podcast series with Jeffrey. Thanks so much. 

You're very welcome. Thank you. Uh, we're now gonna go on to second to last segment.

Uh, and I, we'll keep it short 'cause I can see time is moving half. What 

time 

is it? Uh, you, you'll still seeing, you'll see an edit. 

Oh God, my eyes closed. 

Uh, the mc of the month, uh, is, uh, the, is the, a charity called A DHD uk. So they're focused on helping people navigate life with a DHD, both building awareness, reducing stigmas around that and supporting meaningful, meaningful research into that area.

So if you're interested in learning more about them, please do check out their website. Um, yeah, we've now come to the last segment, which, uh, is for some people the toughest Oh, uh, book because we've spoken about a lot. Uh, and I've enjoyed every minute of it. Okay. Uh, but if people have to go home with one message, you're just like, they're just like, this is the key thing that, um, everyone's told us to, to take home with us.

What would you say it is? 

Make sure you, 

okay.

Understand the problem that you are solving. Get clear on the problem you are solving. What problem do you like to solve? That's how you make money. 

Mm-hmm. 

That's how you make money. 

I love that. I I will, I will keep it there because I don't want to talk any longer because, uh, yeah. That, that's, that's, that's great.

Uh, and on that note, uh, we come to the end. Thank you very much, everyone. It's been an absolute pleasure. And I will, um, we did this end section for you on top. So how can people find out more about the work that you do? How can people connect with you? Do you have any, uh, like you said, I'm not sure when this will come out, so I'd be like, if you've got anything, this is where you plug everything that's coming up in the next couple of months.

Um, but yeah. How can people connect with you? 

Yeah. 

All of that stuff. 

So, um, on LinkedIn you can connect with me at EA, so E Ali. Um, but it comes up as EA, uh, so do connect me with me on there. I'm on Instagram at experiences with ebbs now. Um, the thing that I want you to pay attention to, with respect to where I'm at right now and the services that I offer, if you are interested in, uh, one-to-one mentoring, um, that's something that I do.

You can drop your a message, um, and, and we can have a conversation. Again, what I am really passionate about, what I help people to do, um, I've worked with Google, I've worked with, um, Facebook. I've worked with HSBC, I've worked with the governmental digital services. I've delivered workshops at Joe Malone.

I've done a whole plethora of things. And, um, my work with Google involved me, uh, mentoring small business owners. Mm-hmm. And so I've had the privilege of being able to work across different, um, work across work with different founders. 

Mm-hmm. 

Um, and different creators. Um, I specifically enjoy working with, uh, creatives.

Um, I'm very, very passionate about that. And so if you are a brand, um, that want to help the creative community and would like for me to deliver sessions, um, then please get in touch. And if you are an individual, if you're creative yourself and you feel like, um, any of this stuff resonate, make sure you leave a comment below and we can like, have a conversation about it and you can dear me on, uh, LinkedIn.

And then the last thing I would say is definitely, definitely look out for my book. 

Mm-hmm. 

Um, it will come out. Um, I am very, very excited. Very excited because.

Project to work on, especially, you know, when the challenge is focusing on one thing and to be able to focus on writing a book chow. But it's been great because the passion of of my experience and knowing that it will help some of you, um, has been keeping me going. So look out for that book. It'll be published on, you know, share more on my LinkedIn and my socials as well.

Mm-hmm. Um, and then the YouTube, you know, YouTube is, is one of my, my, my spaces. So it's also experiences with ebbs with a Z or Z. A Z or Z.

Yeah. Yeah. So experiences with E. So you can subscribe to my channel on there. Um, and that's it. 

Perfect. Uh, you wanted the Airborn, so I'm gonna do the, 

oh, is it? I want the camera.

Oh, thank you to you. A wonderful audience if you like this episode, like, comment, and subscribe is always appreciated. If you wanna make sure you don't miss any of the episodes on the pickup, the Mike YouTube channel, uh, then please make sure you hit the notification bell at the bottom of the video. If you wanna receive cool merch like the t-shirt I'm wearing, uh, among other things, uh, and you wanna receive discounts at our event.

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